Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[Hyan]

Give me a reason why I should respond to your list full of bias and agenda.

Two things:

A) I don't frankly give a shit about technical innovation because it doesn't interest me except when it affects the design of the game's features.

B) You didn't list the class system, making this whole list an incredibly biased joke at best.

Anything mainstream is rarely innovative. This game could be more innovative. But the important thing is that it is distinctive to me from all the rest of the MMO's, and whether that's caused by innovation or something else, I don't care. It is not like the rest of them (in a good way), which is what appeals to me.

If it wasn't for greed, this game could be even more innovative. It is a crime indeed.

Maybe I should have specified that I'm not talking about strictly SE or XIV here, but the whole entertainment industry. But sadly Activision-Blizzard is the flagship of innovative stagnancy. Every update/game is like a new season of Survivor. Change too much, scare viewers away. No can do.

[Lucavi]

The class system isn't innovative! See: FFV! They've brought nothing new to the table, and it isn't bias; its fact. They took FFV's job system, slapped more restrictions on it to suit a MMO format, and shipped it out. That's a great idea, but its not innovative at all. Innovation is new, and this system, while perhaps "new" to the MMO world, is not new.

You're reaching, Hyan. You're grasping for any reason why this game somehow deserves its own niche away from the other MMOs, and it will have its own niche. It'll have the niche of "Pretty graphics yet devoid of content" and "Great plot, if you can grind through the rest of the game to reach it".

It'll be like Age of Conan, yet without the lies from the developer, the lack of Funcom meddling with things, and a huge brand name and previous title to bolster its hardcore fanbase. Also, it replaces bare tits and ugly models with Japanese pantsu and that Final Fantasy charm.

[Meko]

FF is the only game that uses a retarded menu system. You have a point.

[Dantrag]

The reason so many games use a majority gui system now is because... it works! Being able to have a recipe book saves a TON of time. It almost feels like some sort of slow ass system when trying to do stuff because of the menu lag

[Lucavi]

Innovate if you have no reason to because what is currently out is already awesome. That's Hyan's creed.

I understand that sometimes you can't move drastically forward without taking a few stumbles, but this implies that SE is trying. I haven't felt once that SE is honestly, truly, REALLY trying to reach the next level of innovation. It feels like they're putting out their next-gen MMO and trying to get subs. I dunno where all this innovation talk is coming from, especially when they've used a shit-ton of ideas from other companies in designing this.

[Hyan]

The class system isn't innovative! See: FFV! They've brought nothing new to the table, and it isn't bias; its fact. They took FFV's job system, slapped more restrictions on it to suit a MMO format, and shipped it out. That's a great idea, but its not innovative at all. Innovation is new, and this system, while perhaps "new" to the MMO world, is not new.

Do I have to explain re-innovation to you? Or how multitude of different features is more than a sum of it's parts? Simple example: You have the stat allocation system from RO, and the class system from FFV- the end result is not similar to how RO's stat allocation worked. Something new and distinctive has been created.

You're reaching, Hyan. You're grasping for any reason why this game somehow deserves its own niche away from the other MMOs, and it will have its own niche. It'll have the niche of "Pretty graphics yet devoid of content" and "Great plot, if you can grind through the rest of the game to reach it".

Oh, was I looking for a reason for that? I wasn't aware.

It's a largely social MMO, which makes it a niche already. It's not anything new in the history of MMO's, but it is something new in the history of recent MMO's. And no one is going to steal that niche, because everyone else is too busy trying to make an online RPG out of an MMO.

That's all that's needed for a niche. And it doesn't tell us about the game's innovativeness as much as it tells us about how the rest of the industry isn't getting it.

It'll be like Age of Conan, yet without the lies from the developer, the lack of Funcom meddling with things, and a huge brand name and previous title to bolster its hardcore fanbase. Also, it replaces bare tits and ugly models with Japanese pantsu and that Final Fantasy charm.

Why are you talking about that WoW clone again? They have nothing in common. Aside from being released unfinished of course. Why you think this is a characteristic of AoC in particular Idk.

Innovate if you have no reason to

Wait, what? I'm dying for some innovation in this stagnant genre. There is a great reason to innovate and that is because I am bored out of my mind of what the industry has become.

That is indeed my fucking creed.

[Lucavi]

Why are you talking about that WoW clone again? They have nothing in common. Aside from being released unfinished of course. Why you think this is a characteristic of AoC in particular Idk.

I think you need to take another good, long look, Hyan. The end results, aside from the job system and random skill-up "innovation" are rather similar, looking at it in terms of not only developer procedures (rush the shit out of it, listen to little from your player-base during alpha/beta, getting slammed by reviews, ect.), but in the battle system, the focus on next-gen graphics to the exclusion of much else, the way zones are handled, ect.

There's a lot of similarities of you look for them.

[Meko]

I think at this point in the MMO world and in the gaming world in general, most things are the similar especially in regards to MMOs. The general idea is to interact with other players, kill monsters, win loot, equip items, craft and have a good time. The rest are little "niches" in each game but mostly, that's the gist. WoW certainly trims all the little things down and streamlines what I mentioned. I think SE spent too much time on the graphics instead of focusing on game play and releasing an intuitive UI/overall interface. I may be in the minority but I can't stand the menu system. It seems silly and very convoluted.

[Hyan]

the focus on next-gen graphics to the exclusion of much else

There are things I might be missing, like this one (the game looks fucking awful aesthetically to me) but I think you are simplifying it too much. Even the rushed out of the door problem, while similar in principle, had different end results in both games. AoC was literally full of bugs and glitches of all kinds, while XIV is relatively bug free for an MMO release- it's rushed but not in the same way.

[person2007]

AoC was literally full of bugs and glitches of all kinds, while XIV is relatively bug free for an MMO release- it's rushed but not in the same way.

Maybe AoC was buggy as fuck. But funnily enough, i enjoyed AoC, i don't enjoy XIV

[Noob]

XIV is relatively bug free for an MMO release.

Are we playing the same game?

[Dantrag]

while XIV is relatively bug free for an MMO release- it's rushed but not in the same way.

Yeah... ok... I'm not even going to bother listing everything that's wrong and maybe considered a "bug/issue" but I'll just add this one: XP/SP not being rewarded in parties larger than 3. That alone, is MAJOR fucking fail.

[Elcura]

I don't care if he wants to closet-fuck us all if it brings about better games. I could care less that he wants our money. Street Fighter is a better product because he wants our money.

FFXIV would be a better product if SE showed more of a drive to work to earn our money, instead of assuming that the idiot masses (Japan's PM did say that Americans are essentially idiots) will play an unpolished turd for 6+ years simply because Final Fantasy is in the title.

Greed isn't a bad thing if greed is what forces/compels companies to work harder on their products. I feel like Blizzard is a pretty greedy company, but I also feel like its what causes them to take the time they do on their products. Selling all of those millions of copies of Diablo II, Starcraft, Starcraft II, Warcraft III and WoW must have done wonders for their greed, but go figure: the games are pretty damned good.

You make a company wanting to make money sound like a crime.

That's the thing, bringing a better product is as hit or miss as it always is. Listening to customers is a balancing act, you can't take too much from them or you'll regret it. I mean, if closet-fucking the west was always a good idea, DMC5 wouldn't exist in the state it's in. Or that other game Capcom gave to a western developer to fuck up.

It's annoying because Capcom arguable make some of the best franchises out there, like SF, DMC, RE etc etc etc, yet they bum fuck the west and don't see how well they're doing and how giving over their series is only harming them. I don't want the east and west to collide in some mish-mash of mediocrity.

If I had to list one of my favourite developers, it would be Bioware, for whatever mistakes they make, they do listen to their customer (I feel the right amount).

What you say about greed is idealistic for the most part, after all, it's greed that has FFXIV in it's current state. It can help or hinder.

[plue]

Ok, some of you seem to confuse a couple of things. Just because something is innovative, doesn't mean that it's fun. If I could play one completely fleshed out fun class, I'd prefer that to having to get abilities from 5 boring, bugged classes.

SE can innovate whatever they want, I can invent a new mode of transportation, but if these things don't work better than what's in place right now, they're fucking useless.

[Lucavi]

That's the thing, bringing a better product is as hit or miss as it always is. Listening to customers is a balancing act, you can't take too much from them or you'll regret it. I mean, if closet-fucking the west was always a good idea, DMC5 wouldn't exist in the state it's in. Or that other game Capcom gave to a western developer to fuck up.

It's annoying because Capcom arguable make some of the best franchises out there, like SF, DMC, RE etc etc etc, yet they bum fuck the west and don't see how well they're doing and how giving over their series is only harming them. I don't want the east and west to collide in some mish-mash of mediocrity.

If I had to list one of my favourite developers, it would be Bioware, for whatever mistakes they make, they do listen to their customer (I feel the right amount).

What you say about greed is idealistic for the most part, after all, it's greed that has FFXIV in it's current state. It can help or hinder.

Isn't what they're doing with DMC innovating it?

IE: fucking around with things that don't need to be fucked with. I agree that innovation is often-times a good thing, but test your fucking innovations before you release them out to the public. Some shit is just not fated to leave the developer's boards and the meetings.

The entire thing is a balance act. Every concept we talk about is a balancing act. The problem is that SE is balancing it wrong. They're too one-sided on the balance scale, in multiple fronts. Too much selfishness, and not enough selflessness. Too much stubbornness and not enough leniency. Too much rush and not enough wait. Too much take and not enough give.

I'd imagine even you and I can agree that far, Elcura.

@Hyan: I really don't have to say anything. Everyone else is saying it for me. FFXIV's launch is the smoothest in terms of "not getting kicked the fuck off" that I've ever played. I'll readily admit that, and I'll tip my hat on that. But in terms of what is here now, and how much fun people are having based on what's here and what isn't... no, just no. This game is far from where it could have been and should have been on that front. The game isn't "smooth" on that front, and it isn't because of too much or not enough innovation; its because SE rushed the shit out of it and forgot to program more than leves and crafting into the game, somehow.

Oh, I forgot. Pretty graphics!

[Shade]

Wait wait. I was all ready to hop aboard the big-budget gaming is killing innovation train. It is one of my favorite trains.
But FFXIV is an example of positive innovation?

I mean, I'm having fun with it despite its flaws but... it has a ALOT of flaws. Innovation should serve a goal. Form should serve function. It is the design imperative. For example, FFXIV's menu system is the poorly-balance gem encrusted useless for actually fighting sword that true warriors are always disdaining of. It's been innovated at the expense of usefulness.

[Maaglin]

At least AoC was fun as fuck playing through Tortage, doing your destiny quests, etc. It fell apart after you finished up there. But at least it had something that was extremely polished, fun, and easy to get immersed in to get you started.

[Lordender]

I think the gamespot guy hit the nail on the head, this game is seldomly fun except from level 1-10 where you feel a sense of progress because you level at good speed but it mostly feels like a un-fun job past rank 20. I know it is still early but the balance is just beyond terrible, mobs ws like crazy like HNM did sub 20% on FFXI, damage of tp moves make no sense, mobs can hit you for 40-100'ish but do 300-600'ish ws's that cannot be sidestepped.

Battle system needs major tweaks, I run into stamina issues on maruader already, Accuracy is dead-awful even with +acc items on blue mobs, ws's missing 4-5 times in a row with a 100% durability weapon, I am not looking for drk 2.0 pre sushi and before everyone leveled a bard.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Sweet that it's been 8 days and no fatigue reset for me yet. Some people in my ls last night didn't get a reset till almost midnight, but at least they got it. I had reset last wednesday and everything was fine, I hit surplus on this past tuesday and still no reset today. I'm 100% positive that I've gained SP on leathercrat more than 1 week ago. I've swapped jobs, killed stuff on lancer, leveled weaver up a rank, crafted 10k SP on leather today and it just won't go away.

[miokomioko]

Last night, much after midnight, I hit fatigue on Fishing Skill, but I pushed through a good 2/3rds of a Rank before I stopped.

I switched classes to Culinarian did some crafting and immediately hit Physical fatigue.

I pushed through a full physical level during this fatigue before I stopped crafting.

I switched back to Fisher after maybe 30 minutes of being off of it. Fisher's fatigue was gone.

I went to bed at 4am and got up at 10am, physical fatigue is gone as well.

Burning through almost a whole physical level since I got up, I still haven't hit fatigue on it.