Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[Sephiroth]

The main thing that making stuff BoE fixes is that crafting isn't worthless. Right now it's impossible to expect time/money value of crafting to pay off. It takes FOREVER to make items, because they involve like 800 different things, and it doesn't help that the interface is clunky as all hell. Furthermore, when someone wants an item, they don't have to go to a crafter, they can just find someone selling their old item that they've repaired up. Making things BoE forces everyone to go to a crafter. If it didn't take 8 years to synth a single item then it might be worth the time investment, but as it stands crafting is just pouring money down the drain.

That would be a terrible system too as gear prices would have to be lower. No way would I pay hundreds of thousands of a weapon that will be useless when I rank up half a dozen ranks to the next one. If I couldn't sell it, I'd expect the weapon to cost a fraction of what it does. But that wouldn't happen, prices would likely go up since people are forced to buy off the two or three crafters making the item.

[bruiser]

Why would gear prices have to be lower? People are sitting on millions of gil right now with nothing to spend it on.

[Elcura]

Hearing this, I have my doubts that BoE will actually make things better. You'd still have a lot of items in circulation, that wouldn't change because the nature of the game requires you to mostly make components to skill up. For example, on weaver the best skill I got for a while was making cotton shirt fronts and backs. I had a couple of stacks of each, then I decided to make some sleeves and bam, I had like 20 shirts to sell. Equipment at this level isn't going to be grand or overly expensive, the best way to make money for the most part is mass production on items that people use to make equipment. Which I don't think helps.

I seriously don't think BoE will work, not with the way XIV is now. It could make things better, or a lot worse.

As for the story and lore, the game has enough story (and it's good), and lore (if you talk to people, read leve descriptions etc) for the start. I can only imagine it getting better. Considering SEs record, this will be the one good aspect they get right off the bat.

[Elcura]

Hearing this, I have my doubts that BoE will actually make things better. You'd still have a lot of items in circulation, that wouldn't change because the nature of the game requires you to mostly make components to skill up. For example, on weaver the best skill I got for a while was making cotton shirt fronts and backs. I had a couple of stacks of each, then I decided to make some sleeves and bam, I had like 20 shirts to sell. Equipment at this level isn't going to be grand or overly expensive, the best way to make money for the most part is mass production on items that people use to make equipment. Which I don't think helps.

I seriously don't think BoE will work, not with the way XIV is now. It could make things better, or a lot worse.

As for the story and lore, the game has enough story (and it's good), and lore (if you talk to people, read leve descriptions etc) for the start. I can only imagine it getting better. Considering SEs record, this will be the one good aspect they get right off the bat.

[Sephiroth]

Why would gear prices have to be lower? People are sitting on millions of gil right now with nothing to spend it on.

Do you honestly think that will stay that way? Current gear is just basic stuff. You're going to be paying millions for any NM drop or item crafted from mats dropped by NMs. Not everyone is sitting on millions either, if this poll on Zam is to believed. Small sample size but still.


I tried farming shards today, my conclusion is that the problem is laziness rather than a supply issue. I was farming wind shards so quickly and getting wind and lightning crystals too. I was able to exchange the lightning crystals for wind pretty quickly with Weavers so it's all good. In fact farming shards was so productive it has got me wondering why I am crafting. Sure I can synth the amount of gil I could have made in shards faster than the farming, but can I sell it fast enough? Not really.

[Meresgi]

So I got the carpentry quest "Mouth of babes" and went to do it, am I going the wrong way or is the only way to Quarrymill through a fuck ton of Bark Efts, vultures and raptors? I keep dying going that way because a raptor will just peg me with a ranged attack from 40yrds away and 1 shot me. What the fuck is this shit?

Also why the FUCKING FUCK DOES EVERYTHING HAVE A RANGED ATTACK THEY USE FROM MILES AWAY. Who the fuck designed these quests.

[Lucavi]

Everyone having ranged attacks is another of their anti-RMT and anti-exploit measures. Hard to bot/kite when shit is blowing you up from beyond your max range, AND when shit is "bugging" out to regain HP at random intervals.

I'll give SE some credit. As flawed, buggy, and as stupid as some of their ideas are for this game, you can honestly tell that they really, really, REALLY tried to think about how to fight RMT right off the back in this game. Not every company does that. It seems that RMT disturbed them more than I had initially thought in FFXI.

[Katlan]

Everyone having ranged attacks is another of their anti-RMT and anti-exploit measures. Hard to bot/kite when shit is blowing you up from beyond your max range, AND when shit is "bugging" out to regain HP at random intervals.

I'll give SE some credit. As flawed, buggy, and as stupid as some of their ideas are for this game, you can honestly tell that they really, really, REALLY tried to think about how to fight RMT right off the back in this game. Not every company does that. It seems that RMT disturbed them more than I had initially thought in FFXI.

yes, but their insistence to create a game that combat's RMT every step of the way is what lead to this pile of shit mmo we have. everything down to the UI needing to trigger the server for every action / command initiated. They alrdy combated RMT by making money so easy to get. That's the best way to do it... yeah, things will be priced higher because of that, but its realistic to farm for the money that you need.

[bruiser]

Hearing this, I have my doubts that BoE will actually make things better. You'd still have a lot of items in circulation, that wouldn't change because the nature of the game requires you to mostly make components to skill up. For example, on weaver the best skill I got for a while was making cotton shirt fronts and backs. I had a couple of stacks of each, then I decided to make some sleeves and bam, I had like 20 shirts to sell. Equipment at this level isn't going to be grand or overly expensive, the best way to make money for the most part is mass production on items that people use to make equipment. Which I don't think helps.

Not really. Just because it's "the best" skillup doesn't mean you have to make it. make cotton yarn or undyed hempen cloths until you're high enough to make cotton cloth. Works fine, and is easy. Most finished products that are actually worthwhile are extremely annoying to craft, requiring multiple ingredients from various crafts.

It's just basic common sense that what goes in must come out. FFXI had the same problem. People would make 10 haubergeons to get 1 HQ. So the price difference between NQ and HQ were retarded for the stat difference, and Haubergeons never left the economy. What goes in must come out.

[bruiser]

yes, but their insistence to create a game that combat's RMT every step of the way is what lead to this pile of shit mmo we have. everything down to the UI needing to trigger the server for every action / command initiated. They alrdy combated RMT by making money so easy to get. That's the best way to do it... yeah, things will be priced higher because of that, but its realistic to farm for the money that you need.

Why does everyone keep saying money is easy to get? lol. Does nobody seriously understand even the first thing about economics around here?

[BerenTebogo]

@crafting / gear complaints

Honestly, since at the moment it appears that stats on gear are useless (i.e. if you're capped through points the stats do nothing for you) the only point to upgrading gear is to make your char look how you want them to. It's basically Sims XIV.

Hurts crafting even more, or will, when more people figure it out. I level armorer 100% of parts and never make items unless I have all the mats / shards through farming alone. I stopped paying for shit a long time ago. Made like ~15 bronze haubs for only the cost of the undyed cloth, but I also sold them ridiculously low because fuck everyone else I want my money.

It's a bit like FFXI in that respect. You spend 100 levels skilling up on shit nobody will ever use so you npc it, you get to 100 (50) and take advantage of being one a few people at 50 in the craft long enough to make stacks of cash to last you until whatever.

[Rammses]

@crafting / gear complaints

Honestly, since at the moment it appears that stats on gear are useless (i.e. if you're capped through points the stats do nothing for you) the only point to upgrading gear is to make your char look how you want them to. It's basically Sims XIV.

Hurts crafting even more, or will, when more people figure it out. I level armorer 100% of parts and never make items unless I have all the mats / shards through farming alone. I stopped paying for shit a long time ago. Made like ~15 bronze haubs for only the cost of the undyed cloth, but I also sold them ridiculously low because fuck everyone else I want my money.

It's a bit like FFXI in that respect. You spend 100 levels skilling up on shit nobody will ever use so you npc it, you get to 100 (50) and take advantage of being one a few people at 50 in the craft long enough to make stacks of cash to last you until whatever.

What about defense, m. defense, evasion, resilience, attack, accuracy, m.attack, m.accuracy, HP, MP, perception, output, gathering, control, craftsmanship, m.craftsmanship, added effects and uncapped attributes?

[BerenTebogo]

What about defense, m. defense, evasion, resilience, attack, accuracy, m.attack, m.accuracy, HP, MP, perception, output, gathering, control, craftsmanship, m.craftsmanship, added effects and uncapped attributes?

You have gear that isn't a weapon or barely-visible accessory with att/acc/matt/macc? You care about attributes that aren't capped? You have pieces of armor with added effects?

Pedantic much? You can pick any type of armor that your class can equip and have it be within ~10% effectiveness of any other armor of the appropriate level. Don't be retarded.

The ask the dev shit that just came out basically just said that some crafts use craft+, some use mag craft+, and aren't telling us which. So for all you know the body piece you wear with +11 craft or whatever is doing absolutely 0 for what you're crafting. You can guess, and hope, but you have no idea.

[Rammses]

One post ago you were talking about "crafting / gear" and now you're talking about clearly visible armor of the appropriate level.

[BerenTebogo]

Yeah, in respect to how crafting is getting even more boned since the main revenue source for most crafts (gear) can't be effectively predicted or calculated since there are no "good" or "bad" pieces of gear. There's just gear that is the same level you are. So instead of having staple synths to bring in profit you just have to craft a piece of armor, in a specific color, and hope that's the piece somebody, somewhere has been looking for.

i.e. I'm offering good money for black velveteen saroul and shirt for my PUG because it looks cool. The velveteen tabard, which people are spamming, offers me absolutely nothing for PUG over the shirt.

Crafters basically have to cater to "fashion trends" instead of stats. I don't know how that's a hard line of thought to follow. My complaint is that it's pretty fucking stupid. Pretty easy message to get. (although I will say I'm happy I can wear the saroul + shirt instead of velveteen tights + tabard for STR/VIT bonuses while looking like a fucking tool).

Edit: I'll bring up another example. Bronze chainmail - supposed to be a bridge item between tabards and haubs for many DD classes, right? 1-2 levels into being able to wear the chainmail the level 27 haub, scaled down, offers the same if not more DEF / other stats as the chainmail and renders it obsolete (part of why so many pre-20 wear haubs, coupled with being retarded). The fact that money flows like water in this game means that repairing it isn't an issue so long as you aren't an idiot and don't craft in your haub. Etc etc.

Entire market that had potential (chainmail) has been rendered pretty much useless and trash since ~1 week into the game.

[Rammses]

Ok, so from "the only point to upgrading gear is to make your char look how you want them to. It's basically Sims XIV." to certain pieces of gear not being worthwhile to craft or equip unless people like the way they look.

But feel free to post more paragraphs if you think that makes your initial argument look less stupid.

Back on topic:

It's stupid how attribute stats on gear don't do anything if the attribute in question is already capped.

[BerenTebogo]

Ok, so from "the only point to upgrading gear is to make your char look how you want them to. It's basically Sims XIV." to certain pieces of gear not being worthwhile to craft or equip unless people like the way they look.

But feel free to post more paragraphs if you think that makes your initial argument look less stupid.

Back on topic:

It's stupid how attribute stats on gear don't do anything if the attribute in question is already capped.

This guy, lol.

[Lucavi]

yes, but their insistence to create a game that combat's RMT every step of the way is what lead to this pile of shit mmo we have. everything down to the UI needing to trigger the server for every action / command initiated. They alrdy combated RMT by making money so easy to get. That's the best way to do it... yeah, things will be priced higher because of that, but its realistic to farm for the money that you need.

I'm not saying it helps the game (it actually hurts it tremendously), but that I can understand why SE wanted to attack RMT viciously right off the back, and they've done that. I applaud their efforts insofar as fighting RMT.

Its a shame the game is pretty bad right now, in-part to those efforts, but again, I haven't seen a lot of companies actively trying to rout RMT before it can even start. I'll give credit where credit is due.

[Elcura]

Not really. Just because it's "the best" skillup doesn't mean you have to make it. make cotton yarn or undyed hempen cloths until you're high enough to make cotton cloth. Works fine, and is easy. Most finished products that are actually worthwhile are extremely annoying to craft, requiring multiple ingredients from various crafts.

It's just basic common sense that what goes in must come out. FFXI had the same problem. People would make 10 haubergeons to get 1 HQ. So the price difference between NQ and HQ were retarded for the stat difference, and Haubergeons never left the economy. What goes in must come out.

Except, at 24 when you need ridiculous skill to rank up, doing synths that give 300, for less earth shards and minor wind, using the cloth you've been making for the previous 5 ranks IS the best thing to do. Considering cotton cloth gave 150-200, yarn gave 50, and shirt fronts gave 300. Which would you do? All things considered.

[Meresgi]

The ask the dev shit that just came out basically just said that some crafts use craft+, some use mag craft+, and aren't telling us which. So for all you know the body piece you wear with +11 craft or whatever is doing absolutely 0 for what you're crafting. You can guess, and hope, but you have no idea.

I think body armor ONLY comes with craft+ on it, and boots only have mag.craft+ on them, and gloves only come with control+. I could be wrong on that regard