Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[Nevex]

Whether spamming '1' or not is the best way for melees to gain SP is debatable, especially in a party.
If you deal less damage per strike you get less SP if you get the lucky proc, but since the mob will last longer you have more chances. You also have to take into account weapon skills' higher stamina costs.

Also, let's assume you can get 500 SP quickly from using your highest damaging skills. Once you get them you'll want to kill the mob as fast as you can so you can fight the next one.
Now it's unrealistic to think that everyone else (especially mages) has capped SP as fast, so they'll ideally want you to stop damaging the mob so they can get more SP proc chances.
If everyone tries to do the most damage possible, chances are that a lot of them won't even get a single SP proc.
If you kill mobs too quickly you'll need to wait for repops too and you obviously don't gain any SP during that phase.

Either way, this "my SP vs everyone else's SP" scenario is always present thanks to the random SP gain system.
To balance things out you'll generally want everyone to spam their most basic skills (normal attacks, cure 1, etc.).
This is FFXIV's most glaring flaw about the grinding aspect: the game punishes you for killing mobs "too quickly" and promotes partying with gimps.

[qpoiuwer]

Whether spamming '1' or not is the best way for melees to gain SP is debatable, especially in a party.
If you deal less damage per strike you get less SP if you get the lucky proc, but since the mob will last longer you have more chances. You also have to take into account weapon skills' higher stamina costs.

Also, let's assume you can get 500 SP quickly from using your highest damaging skills. Once you get them you'll want to kill the mob as fast as you can so you can fight the next one.
Now it's unrealistic to think that everyone else (especially mages) has capped SP as fast, so they'll ideally want you to stop damaging the mob so they can get more SP proc chances.
If everyone tries to do the most damage possible, chances are that a lot of them won't even get a single SP proc.
If you kill mobs too quickly you'll need to wait for repops too and you obviously don't gain any SP during that phase.

Either way, this "my SP vs everyone else's SP" scenario is always present thanks to the random SP gain system.
To balance things out you'll generally want everyone to spam their most basic skills (normal attacks, cure 1, etc.).
This is FFXIV's most glaring flaw about the grinding aspect: the game punishes you for killing mobs "too quickly" and promotes partying with gimps.

This is a pretty bad and extremely boring way to skill up. Alternatively, you can create a well-balanced party and fight appropriately-leveled enemies with the ideal amount of hit points and get great skill killing as fast as possible.

[Katlan]

This is a pretty bad and extremely boring way to skill up. Alternatively, you can create a well-balanced party and fight appropriately-leveled enemies with the ideal amount of hit points and get great skill killing as fast as possible.

that's an ideal scenario that doesn't always happen. And even in perfect party makeups, due to the RNG some ppl may still not get SP

[Lucavi]

Are people really going to start talking theorycrafting bullshit about SP again? RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR IS RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR. Jesus.

[Arximiro]

I made an exp pt the other night and we exped on Toxic Toads, the respawn on them was insane, upwards or 30 or more mins. After we wiped out the 15 or so we just had to do Buzzzards and Island crabs for awhile until they respawned.

For the record the Toxic Toads were great exp. It's funny as shit when they jump up to do their body slam aoe and miss, then get stuck on their backs rolling around like a fat ass puppy, at least the first time you see it.

[Dantrag]

that's an ideal scenario that doesn't always happen. And even in perfect party makeups, due to the RNG some ppl may still not get SP

Would be nice if they took off the 500 SP cap, and then added everyone's SP gain into a pool and then divided by the number of members. So if 2 people were grinding, one person got 100 the other 600, it would give them each 350. I think something like that would actually make for a decent system. Or at least change the cap for each additional person in the PT.

[Zounder]

Are people really going to start talking theorycrafting bullshit about SP again? RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR IS RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR. Jesus.

That's only half the issue, the other half being that party members are geared toward "let me optimize my SP gain" and not "let's kill this mob as efficiently as possible," which is mostly what people are discussing.

In response to whether or not spamming "1" is optimal, I think it not only depends on class but it would require a lot of testing over a large time span to determine. At fist, as an archer, I thought it was optimal, but sometimes I see no difference. If there is a difference, it isn't much. Which means there's not a whole lot to lose as far as SP goes by mindless auto-attacking. and even if you're doing less damage... hey, at least everyone else gets more hits/heals in for more SP!

[Cureslime]

I also cringe at how almost every LS wants you to use vent these days. Like I want to sit and talk on a voice chatroom at 3am in the morning when people are sleeping. There's nothing in this game that should require voice chat and there was nothing in FFXI that required it. Are people incapable of typing these days?

I'm with you on that. There is currently nothing in the game that necessitates voice chat. I've seen a few grind parties pop up that stated "must have vent." For grinding mobs. Seriously...it takes about 5 seconds to explain what is going on in a party.

"We are going to place W to grind X."
"Y is tanking and Z is healing."

The end. No voice chat necessary.

[Dantrag]

Voice chat is more for conversing and shooting the shit because it's impossible w/ the way chat currently is.

[Sephiroth]

Wow, vent for grinding too? I didn't think it was that bad.

Voice chat is more for conversing and shooting the shit because it's impossible w/ the way chat currently is.

I much rather listen to music than kids yapping on while grinding mobs. If people don't want to type then I don't want to speak to them.

It seems to be a side effect of the XBox generation who grew up with mics and chatting on XBox Live while playing games. They now feel it's important to have this in everything they play. PS3 users will be chased away from the game if people keep up this attitude.

[Arximiro]

Oh God, I never understood people wanting to talk on Vent, unless communication lines are absolutely needed. Maybe it's just because I hear enough about the mundane crap in everyone I know's life on Facebook. I have music to listen to and scrobbling to do.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Facebook is awful.

TeamSpeak/Vent is a great way to talk about in-game stuff on the go. I idle in my TS and it's pretty active most of the day, so when I want to chat, it's there. It's a convenient way of asking a simple question like "where should I go to grind as 16 Lancer?" without having to search forums or something.

My observation has been that the FF community (thanks to XI I guess) has been further removed from voice chat than any other MMO community I've ever participated in. Perhaps it's because of the console releases. I just really don't know why or how it is that way. But really, you ask the average WoW/Aion/EQ player their opinion on voice chat and it is 9/10 times more positive than asking the average FFXI player.

[Vilmos]

I can barely keep my eyes from bleeding from the horrid typing done in the games. 9/10 of the time I don't want to hear peoples voices to add to the agony.

Also:

All my hate to jackasses who make up their own class acronyms.

PGL not PUG A pug is a dog. (So ugly they are cute.)
GLD is Goldsmithing
GLA is Gladiator
CON not CONJ

I could go on, but I won't. With the list, and more than likely this game after it is no longer free.
Our server dropped to 800 people last night. Half are afk and the other half were probably bots and RMT at this point.

[Grey Jorildyn]

One of the underpinnings of using voice chat for your guild is that no one ends up typing anything in text boxes generally. Not in linkshell, party, etc. Generally only world channels see any action, and SE hasn't give us those--best we get is shout lol. As it is, this game's text buffer is like, what? 120 characters? You end up having to type three buffer's worth of text to get an idea across. Fricking stupid as fuck. Voice chat Yes, Please.

[Katlan]

As it is, this game's text buffer is like, what? 120 characters? You end up having to type three buffer's worth of text to get an idea across. Fricking stupid as fuck.

Your being way to generous, its more like 40, or something retarded, once you finish typing the name (since the name counts towards the total). There were some ppl who had the longest possible first / last name combo, and when you fully type out there name there is no room left to type anything.

[Purrrfect]

One of the underpinnings of using voice chat for your guild is that no one ends up typing anything in text boxes generally. Not in linkshell, party, etc.

The drawback there, is that the 3 people that don't have voice chat have no idea what is going on. Same thing when you have half your party as ls members and the rest randoms who aren't getting the info they need. Though, that isn't as much of an issue in a more social ls. VC is one of those love/hate things I guess. I'd be happier if we used vent, but we use mumble and YOU CAN'T FUCKING ADJUST USER VOLUMES CUZ THE DEVS THINK IT IS AGAINST THEIR PRINCIPLES. /killpuppies

[Sephiroth]

Facebook is awful.

TeamSpeak/Vent is a great way to talk about in-game stuff on the go. I idle in my TS and it's pretty active most of the day, so when I want to chat, it's there. It's a convenient way of asking a simple question like "where should I go to grind as 16 Lancer?" without having to search forums or something.

What's wrong with asking such a simple question in LS chat?

All my hate to jackasses who make up their own class acronyms.

PGL not PUG A pug is a dog. (So ugly they are cute.)
GLD is Goldsmithing
GLA is Gladiator
CON not CONJ

Interesting that one. I always assumed Goldsmithing was GSM because blacksmithing is BSM. I mean, it's a logical assumption. Calling Blacksmithing BLK would be a logical assumption too if you see GLD before the other.

Also you have the problem of foreign languages. They each have their own class acronyms.

[Zubis]

What's wrong with asking such a simple question in LS chat?

Where do you get the idea he think there's something wrong with it?

[Sephiroth]

Where do you get the idea he think there's something wrong with it?

He said it's a convenient way of asking a simple question, with the alternative being searching forums etc. Asking in LS chat is just as convenient, which is what he's arguing against.

I really shouldn't have to explain such a thing to you.

[Zubis]

He said it's a convenient way of asking a simple question, with the alternative being searching forums etc. Asking in LS chat is just as convenient, which is what he's arguing against.

No, what he's arguing against are people who argue against Vent/TS for stupid reasons. i.e "Oh noes, I might as well type it!" You can't possibly say it'd be a inconvenience to say something rather than type it.