Random Complaint Thread. No white knighting allowed.

[Dantrag]

On a side note: I would never join vent for a random pick up. Vent for me is only for people I play with and enjoy talking to. Other wise, yes I agree, typing is a waste of time and archaic as hell. I'm really not shocked that the stigma carried over from XI though.

[Lucavi]

Yes I agree, typing is a waste of time and archaic as hell. I'm really not shocked that the stigma carried over from XI though.

Nor am I. Pretty much every stigma from XI that isn't job-related (too early for that) has been carried over from XI. No great surprise, for better or for worse.

[Ksandra]

I'm really not shocked that the stigma carried over from XI though.

too many guys in a skirt in ffxi/ffxiv to let the stigma go.

[bruiser]

I've played tons of MMOs, FFXI wasn't even the first, and I will always have a special place in my heart reserved for hating voice chat. In some games it's really necessary, like WoW for example where battles are very fast paced and every second counts. In Final Fantasy games, this just isn't the case. The hardest battles in the game can be done without even almost needing voice chat.

The only time I ever used vent in FFXI was during Dynamis, and even then it was only 3-4 people on vent. Like the puller and leaders.

Voice chat almost completely kills the MMO experience for me, as it certainly doesn't feel like i'm playing a fantasy game anymore when I hear peoples' kids crying in the background, or find out that that cute mithra is actually a 55 year old mouth breather.

[Lucavi]

So, Bruiser, how will you handle the inevitable end-game fights which will hopefully involve thrilling and engaging combat. I honestly want to know, since I kept getting hot in the ears and red in the face with frustration as I had to continuously re-type and re-type when navigating the various menus of the game, as well as when in combat.

[bruiser]

If the game is still that bad that menus / typing are impossible while playing, AND those endgame fights necessitate voice chat due to the complexity of the battles, then I will probably use voice chat for the exact duration of the fight, and no longer. Just like I did in WoW.

It's hard to imagine though, that if the game is still suffering from such terrible menu / interface problems by the time enough people are high enough level to do those endgame fights, and there's enough content for there to actually be endgame fights, that people will even still be playing at that point.

[Lucavi]

I don't see what they could change to somehow make typing suddenly viable mid-combat unless they moved to an auto-attack scheme, which I can't see them doing since the system was so "touted". I guess they could change the attack options to mouse clicks or controller buttons, but they'd still interfere with the menu.

[bruiser]

Yea, idk.

They could make a button that toggles auto-attack on / off I guess. This way people would have the option to use it. Sometimes you don't want auto-attack, because you want to build your stamina up to a certain point, for example.

[Katlan]

They could make a button that toggles auto-attack on / off I guess. This way people would have the option to use it. Sometimes you don't want auto-attack, because you want to build your stamina up to a certain point, for example.

Knowing SE it would be implemented in the same way as casting magic. The auto atk option would come up when you entered any ability (before the ability went off), and it would be to determine if you will, or will not, auto atk during the time between that ability and the next. It would just be one additional menu that casters are already plagued with and melee don't need to deal w/. So I'd be careful what you wish for lol

[bruiser]

Knowing SE it would be implemented in the same way as casting magic. The auto atk option would come up when you entered any ability (before the ability went off), and it would be to determine if you will, or will not, auto atk during the time between that ability and the next. It would just be one additional menu that casters are plagued with and melee don't need to deal w/. So I'd be careful what you wish for lol

Menu pops up
> Please enter the duration for which you wish to auto attack.
-- Up Up Up (select the minimum duration box)
-- Enter (Begin editing)
-- Up Up Up Up Up (choose 5)
-- Enter (Accept selection)
-- Right (Move to drop down box)
-- Enter (Open drop down)
-- Down (Select "Minutes")
-- Enter (Accept Selection)
-- Down Down Down (Select Ok Button)
-- Enter (Initiate auto-attack)

[Archain]

Can't the stamina bar just be done away with? What is wrong with having a simpler cooldown based system?

Why do some of my actions require the moons to align in order to complete them?

I mean, crap...should I go into Visio and draw out a flowchart to show how many requirements need to be met? I bet I could make it really fucking complex if I tried to add Battle Regimens in there (if I was trying to be a jackass) or if I had asked whether or not the skill you pressed made it in the lag window, went blue but waited until 150-200% stam, or went gray.

XI has cooldown requirements for skills, TP requirements for weaponskills, and an added positioning requirement for certain jobs like RNG, THF, NIN, or SAM. This is my 8th MMORPG and I've never seen a system that made you jump through so many hoops to perform combat skills.


Performing Phalanx

1. Is shield raised?
Yes - Go to 2.
No - Raise shield. Go to 1
2. Was a shield block performed?
Yes - Go to 3.
No - Block failed. Go to 1
3. Do you have 250 TP?
Yes - TP requirement met. Go to 4.
No - Build TP. Go to 3.
4. Has the cooldown reset?
Yes - Cooldown allows use. Go to 5.
No - Wait. Go to 4.
5. Do you have enough stamina?
Yes - Go to 6.
No - Wait. Go to 5.
6. Is shield still raised to perform Phalanx?
Yes - Use Phalanx. End.
No - Start again. Go to 1.

Reactive moves give me no visual indication that they are now available for use (Haymaker, Phalanx, the MAR one with a parry). If you've ever played something like Aion, you'll notice that certain skills are prereqs for other skills but they usually light up on an action bar when they've been triggered as available abilities.

Shield Bash requires 3 requirements.
1. TP
2. Cooldown
3. Stamina

When fighting an ever present lag element, will I actually ever use this as intended?

[Archain]

Menu pops up
> Please enter the duration for which you wish to auto attack.
-- Up Up Up (select the minimum duration box)
-- Enter (Begin editing)
-- Up Up Up Up Up (choose 5)
-- Enter (Accept selection)
-- Right (Move to drop down box)
-- Enter (Open drop down)
-- Down (Select "Minutes")
-- Enter (Accept Selection)
-- Down Down Down (Select Ok Button)
-- Enter (Initiate auto-attack)

Up Up
Down Down
Left Right
Left Right
B A
Select Start
Konami sound
Crash to desktop

[Sephiroth]

I can't say I've ever played a game that requires voice chat. FPS games just aren't my thing. The only games I've played online in recent years were GTA IV, LBP and TW10. Hardly games that required voice chat. Though I did play the FPS online matches in GTA IV but it was hardly complex shit like you get in proper FPS games.

People will just have to accept that it's not for everyone. I don't mind sitting in a vent channel and listening if that's what is required for end-game groups but I don't want to speak. I don't intend to take on any leadership roles or tanking roles in this game so maybe I will be fine. If someone shouts to cast X spell on the mob it hardly needs a response.

Totally agree with the guy who brought up mixed servers. I am starting to wish there was an EU server, or even a UK server because I am having to play late nights to play with NA people and that's not something I can continue for much longer.

Why couldn't they just have a few Japanese servers, a UK server, French, German, Spanish and a few US servers? People don't play with randoms so you need people to be online in your LS when you are. I was against joining an unofficial EU server before the game was released but maybe I should have. That said, they probably took EU players away from other servers which just makes the problem worse. The only EU LS I've seen on Wutai is for French speakers.

[Narol]

too many guys in a skirt in ffxi/ffxiv to let the stigma go.

On this note, a trans friend of mine plays this game and she never uses Vent because she doesn't have a very passable voice yet.

As far as things go I think that's much more valid than guys dancing around as miqo'te for handouts. Corner case etc etc, just an interesting anecdote.

[Lucavi]

Yea, idk.

They could make a button that toggles auto-attack on / off I guess. This way people would have the option to use it. Sometimes you don't want auto-attack, because you want to build your stamina up to a certain point, for example.

Then you've lost the point of having the current system. SE is too stubborn to just outright change that, unless subs for this game drop to something stupid low like 200k subs or something. They've been talking up a storm about the "innovative" combat system since we started hearing official tidbits about the game. To just up and change it, even if it does need to be changed (which I don't personally believe; I just feel that he systems around it are so restrictive and clunky that the flaws become readily apparent), would be the same as SE admitting "We done fucked up proper," which they never have and never will.

@Sephiroth: Most games don't require chat. Most games, however, that involve more than one person playing, require voice chat when played at the highest level. That's the crux of the issue. This game, under the current system, will be nearly impossible to play at the highest level without voicechat, simply based on the combat system. There is simply no way for a team of 15 people to coordinate through text-only during some rampaging Behemoth boss fight.

Can the fight be completed? Probably. Can it be completed at a professional, high level? Absolutely not.

[Sephiroth]

Do you think so? Behemoth fight in XI wasn't exactly complex. Hit it with damage and DoT, run from meteor, keep attacking it, make sure no one steals your mob etc. Nidhogg and Aspi weren't complex fights either. Sure they were hard fights at first but nothing complex. The kind of strategy used on those was easy to explain before the fight in text. When people fucked up it was because they pulled Nidhogg's tail or didn't let it sleep or aggroed a fly next to it which linked half the room. Mistakes like that are down to human error rather than communication failure. I'm not convinced high level fights will be any more complex in FFXIV but who knows? EXPing on crabs in XI was more complex than anything I've seen in XIV lol. I'm not joking.

[Vilmos]

Disregard.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Perhaps that says something about the lack of challenge that either that SE presents in their MMOGs or the level of challenge those who play those games are willing to accept. Both receive quite low grades, all things considered.

[Elrina]

Maybe it's just me (other than XI, I've only played Aion and watched people play WoW), but the chat box in FFXI seemed very friendly to text. It was easy to filter out stuff you didn't want, and nice and clear to read when people were talking. I type pretty fast, and with how combat functioned in XI, I was generally able to communicate even in combat or while kiting and it be noticed, read, and understood by everyone. Also, there could be a large linkshell chat or debate between many people and it be easy to read and understand for everyone at the same time.

It wasn't as friendly in Aion, and seems similar (from what I've seen, anyway) in WoW, even though it wasn't that difficult to communicate in text at all. XIV though, from my time spent on it, feels harder to filter properly and communicate easily when talking to several people. And it's ridiculously hard when you have combat/crafting spam in the mix. And then the lack of auto-attack on top of that in combat.

I've no real problem with Vent/TS, even though I didn't use them as much (more in Aion, even though I only played it for a few months, for sure). I can just imagine that, at least in certain situations listening would be pretty valuable, if you aren't leading or needing to communicate during something.

I like text, and I like that I can log text and go back and read linkshell conversations that I had two years ago or w/e and remember those moments, good or bad. Maybe that's weird, I'm sure it isn't the norm, but that's me. Can't really do that with voice/vent conversations, and even if you could, going over past conversations would be tedious and not enjoyable or nostalgic, imo.

I remember XI parties with a lot of conversation and bantering going on, I met several friends doing that whom I still speak to. Not so easy anymore, at least right now, between the new chat box, filter controls, and lack of auto-attack. I can definitely see both sides of this, and prefer the text option myself (when you can both type and read each other's chat easily). But I've got to say it seems like it's getting to a point where voice chat is almost a necessity for times when you want to have a conversation between several+ people and be doing something at the same time.

[jPuff]

RE: Latest Lodestone Entry on the miracle patches

1. Hahahahahahhahaha we have to wait til 2011 to copy/paste macro buttons (hahahahahhahahahhaha [hahahahahaha])

2. Did I miss something or did they seriously not mention anything about the fucking retarded ass chat-character limit? Good for JP language so round-eye no need?

3. Still not sure why I expected anything less. Probably delusional.

EDIT:

4. Let me guess-- you'll have to "pick" one icon to represent your bazaar so if you're both buying and selling you'll have to decide which is more important to you. And if you need repairs you'll obviously pick the repair icon, meaning people looking to buy/sell will pass over your bazaar.