Random Question Thread XIV: No Not XIV, XI

[rog]

GIMP rarely used SUB!

I don't even remember the last time i used it, or wished i had it leveled past 37. It had to be a few months before the 80 cap probably, but idr.

[FailureMidgard]

I don't even remember the last time i used it, or wished i had it leveled past 37. It had to be a few months before the 80 cap probably, but idr.

You never just went /whm to teleport to a maw pre-Abysseaports on something you may have been doing that a melee would be tanking!?

[rog]

I used dem ring and ronfaure op. For mea, i just used my mule which i kept logged in all the time anyway.

[Jeryhn]

How should I do my WHM merits?

Above, people mentioned that all we really care about these days is Abyssea.
And that's pretty much right. That being said, my vote goes for:

5/5 Cure Cast time.
5/5 Barspell

I didn't choose Regen because if we're in Abyssea like we should be, and everyone should have the atmas they have, you should be making much more liberal use of Cures rather than Regen because everyone will have higher HP totals and you will have double Refresh atmas. Regen is a spell to be normally used as an MP saver between Cures. If you have limitless Refresh, you can spam all the Cure5 you want. Making them cast faster is just win.

Any WHM who doesn't have Barspell merits needs to be dragged out into the courtyard and shot.

5/5 Shellra
4/5 Devotion
1/5 Martyr

Shellra follows the above line regarding Barspells. Devotion is obviously more useful than Martyr.
Martyr is useful for activating Medicine Ring... which is largely useless if you're decked out in Surya's +1 and Empyreal hat plus all the other standard WHM Cure Potency gear. However, it will also cure someone in case you get muted (not silenced). Handy.

Protectra is not worth your time. Use Accession Protect5 if you care THAT much.

I remember reading before from someone, I want to say it was Thorny, that all mobs in abyssea can be done by 6 inbreds (or something like that, regardless the point was everything is low mannable)

We just need a strat

PLD/NIN
RDM/DRK
WHM/SCH
COR/RNG
RNG/whatev
BRD/WHM

Briareus is AoE-heavy with attacks that fully wipe shadows. Pull it into Conflux #4's ravine.
Standard Slow+Elegy, make use of Saboteur. Para helps a bit.
PLD gets dual Refresh atmas - keeps MP up to generate own hate without needing Ballad/Evoker's. Hopefully has a decent amount of Merit abyssites.
WHM cures with Cure5 exclusively. Keep Solace on and make use of powered-up Holy.
RDM stuns Colossal Slam exclusively. Applies DoT.
COR uses Fast Cast roll... and whatever else, who cares.
RNG and COR should have a pretty good spread of elemental WS to try for atma.
RNG, COR and Sanguine Blade pick away at it. (Sanguine Blade will outdamage Atonement with a Refresh/INT atma AND heal the tank.)

This should keep you alive and get it pushed down before rage time no sweat.

[FailureMidgard]

Above, people mentioned that all we really care about these days is Abyssea.
And that's pretty much right.
I didn't choose Regen because if we're in Abyssea like we should be, and everyone should have the atmas they have, you should be making much more liberal use of Cures rather than Regen because everyone will have higher HP totals and you will have double Refresh atmas. Regen is a spell to be normally used as an MP saver between Cures. If you have limitless Refresh, you can spam all the Cure5 you want. Making them cast faster is just win.

Any WHM who doesn't have Barspell merits needs to be dragged out into the courtyard and shot.
Devotion is obviously more useful than Martyr.

You are aware you directly contradicted yourself, right? Abyssea is the land of limitless mp, so regen merits suck and anyone who doesn't have regen merits should be shot (Cure Cast is way more useful), and fucking dropping the gil and inv space to get enough cure cast gear to get some useless ass barspellmerits), but OMG THE ABILITY THAT RESTORES MP IS WAY BETTER THAN THE ABILITY THAT RESTORES HP.

Get 5/5 cure cast unless you really like dropping gil on overpriced whm bullshit. Get 5/5 shell5. Then really who cares what you do past that. I have regen from way back in the day when all I did with whm was salvage...I've never once wished I had barspell merits, I still don't. Ya, they are good on some fights, but they are generally a waste on anyone who has a MDT set...and if someone doesn't have a MDT set, well, they should work on that so I don't need to optimize my merits based around gimps? There's nothing wrong with them, I just think you are way way way overstating them.

[rog]

mdb doesn't cap. Just sayin'

[FailureMidgard]

mdb doesn't cap. Just sayin'

Nope, but when you're getting hit for 400 in abyssea, dropping it to 300 is pretty pointless unless your only healer is a black mage (and that's assuming you're fighting a single-element mob). Then again, healing is such a joke it almost doesn't seem worth bothering with MDT gear anymore if you have a white mage. Just Cure6 and don't bother casting a barspell.

[Jeryhn]

You are aware you directly contradicted yourself, right? Abyssea is the land of limitless mp, so regen merits suck and anyone who doesn't have regen merits should be shot (Cure Cast is way more useful), and fucking dropping the gil and inv space to get enough cure cast gear to get some useless ass barspellmerits), but OMG THE ABILITY THAT RESTORES MP IS WAY BETTER THAN THE ABILITY THAT RESTORES HP.

Because everyone that has or uses MP is going to go for Refresh atmas?
It IS more useful than Martyr, hands down, and you don't need an Amano to know that.

And Bar merits don't only add resistance, they add MDB too. If you don't care about giving out MDB on WHM, you're a piss poor WHM.

[FailureMidgard]

Because everyone that has or uses MP is going to go for Refresh atmas?
It IS more useful than Martyr, hands down, and you don't need an Amano to know that.

And Bar merits don't only add resistance, they add MDB too. If you don't care about giving out MDB on WHM, you're a piss poor WHM.

Way to completely miss the point. First off, afaik they only give MDB vs the element you're barring. If there has been testing to say otherwise, let me know, but when a mob is casting various elemental spells, the majority of the time you don't get that MDB. Past that, I have 5/5 devotion, stop thinking everything I type is my opinion - my point is that you use the fact that MP doesn't matter for half your argument, then in the 2nd half claim an ability that just restores MP is useful. Also, no idea what mp based job you bring that doesn't get a refresh atma...paladin is more dead than ever (and would get a refresh atma), rdm/blm/whm/sch/brd/cor(withmpsub) should all be getting 1-2 refresh atmas. Again, maybe some gimps don't have them, but really, atmas are the first thing -anyone- should be going for in abyssea (ok, 2nd after celerity/sojourn), so there's no real reason to not have it.

But the most interesting part of this is you thinking 10 MDB matters (esp in abyssea). In fact, I've never understood why people are so obsessed over it. Again, don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the merits - I just think your attitude towards them being required is retarded. You have 2 scenarios. In scenario 1 - your targets have MDT sets, a solo aga4 from a high lvl NM will still not break 1k damage, with multiple people taking it, won't break 500 damage. You're inside abyssea so tanks have well over 2k HP (2.8k with an HP atma if there's actually a risk of dying) and we all agree mp is a non-issue, meaning the only question is if the person will get 1shot. In scneario 2 - your targets don't have MDT sets, probably have 0 merit abyssites, and are sitting at 1.7khp and take 1.5k damage from a solo -aga4. Obviously in this scenario every little HP matters, but if you're playing with people that have merit abyssites, perhaps an hp atma and a MDT set (oh wait, or you have a stunner with you, MY BAD), why the fuck do you need barspell merits? Again, you don't need regen merits either, but barspell merits are so far from required, I wouldn't blink twice or even care if my whm cast a barspell on me.

I'm sorry, but you're overstating this. They weren't even that amazing outside abyssea, and they are far far worse now than they ever were before. Just cause a bigger cure, realize it's almost impossible to drop under 800mp inside abyssea, and merit whatever the fuck you want for -outside- abyssea. Really, vs most NMs now I don't even bother with seigan or shadows because all they do is let your whm tab out and read BG more. IF you have only a rdm, maybe you need to worry about damage taken 'cause cure4 sucks donkey asshole, but in that situation I guess there's no barspell merits either.

[Yugl]

Way to completely miss the point. First off, afaik they only give MDB vs the element you're barring. If there has been testing to say otherwise, let me know, but when a mob is casting various elemental spells, the majority of the time you don't get that MDB. Past that, I have 5/5 devotion, stop thinking everything I type is my opinion - my point is that you use the fact that MP doesn't matter for half your argument, then in the 2nd half claim an ability that just restores MP is useful. Also, no idea what mp based job you bring that doesn't get a refresh atma...paladin is more dead than ever (and would get a refresh atma), rdm/blm/whm/sch/brd/cor(withmpsub) should all be getting 1-2 refresh atmas. Again, maybe some gimps don't have them, but really, atmas are the first thing -anyone- should be going for in abyssea (ok, 2nd after celerity/sojourn), so there's no real reason to not have it.

As far as I understand it, it's not a contradiction. He's saying that regen is only necessary to the extent that the WHM needs to save MP. Since MP is non-issue for WHM in abyssea, it is not needed. On the other hand, this tells us nothing about the recipients of devotion. Thus, the distinction lies between the target of devotion and the initiator. For example, one could argue that BLM, unlike WHM, will have MP issues because of the rate they spam nukes. This would follow this argument without providing a counterexample. Another interpretation that would save his argument from contradiction stems from the fact that they're two different merit categories. Consequently, and it would have to be a hidden premise of his (Hence, why I won't explicitly state it's his justification), one might argue for devotion because comparatively, there is no ulterior option.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Being unnecessarily wordy is silly, especially when it causes you to to use improper grammar.

[rog]

Thus, the distinction lies between the target of devotion and the initiator. For example, one could argue that BLM, unlike WHM, will have MP issues because of the rate they spam nukes.

This. I can nuke through my mp faster than i recover it on rdm, and rdm has /sch, refresh2 (which blm may or may not have), more frequent verts, and lower mp nukes. If a blm isn't going through his mp much faster than he can recover it, he's probably doing something wrong.

[gnat]

Anyone have any information on farming Gnat Pellets to pop the Vicious Mufflers NM post 75? Only info on wiki 'recommends proper party setup' for the Yagudo Nokizaru/Yojimbo/Superior in Castle Oztroja (S), any of those soloable?

[rog]

Obviously they're all easily soloable. They're exp mobs for level 75, not sure wtf you expect.

[gnat]

A face raping and some wasted time? Better safe than sorry, cheers all the same

[Kegsay]

Just be careful of links and you'll be fine. The higher tier ones you want are on the ledges on top of the courtyardy areas if I recall but its been a while. You can solo the Gnat NM as well since it lurvs to spam magic like (oh noes) Absorb-AGI!

[mijean]

Hi, i read on wiki about abyssites dropping on NM.

# Most 'defeat' abyssites will only be granted to the person claiming the target. Letting it go unclaimed to allow others to claim allows more people to get the abyssite from a single defeat.

Anyone knows more about that ? Like, engaging/disengaging to get the nm unclaim works ? or do you have to lose hate at some point ? (I'm thinking about some bio, conflux zoning chain)

[aduidarnenye]

I was going to go 5/5 Regen and Bar Spell Effect due to having lots and lots of Fast Cast already. Already can't cancel WHM spells, even if you run half way across the zone the bloody thing still goes off and cures for 0 when someone else has cured the target.

My main problem is the group two merits. I was planning on 5/5 Devotion but I'm wondering if they add a Shell/Shellra VI, will that out-perform Shellra V 5/5? If it does, I'll just have to redo the merits into 5/5 Martyr after all. Perhaps I should just toss one level of Shellra V in there and wait til 99 to see what happens.

Do the levels of Shellra V do anything much for the Shell?

[Zadimortis]

PLD/NIN
RDM/DRK
WHM/SCH
COR/RNG
RNG/whatev
BRD/WHM

Briareus is AoE-heavy with attacks that fully wipe shadows. Pull it into Conflux #4's ravine.
Standard Slow+Elegy, make use of Saboteur. Para helps a bit.
PLD gets dual Refresh atmas - keeps MP up to generate own hate without needing Ballad/Evoker's. Hopefully has a decent amount of Merit abyssites.
WHM cures with Cure5 exclusively. Keep Solace on and make use of powered-up Holy.
RDM stuns Colossal Slam exclusively. Applies DoT.
COR uses Fast Cast roll... and whatever else, who cares.
RNG and COR should have a pretty good spread of elemental WS to try for atma.
RNG, COR and Sanguine Blade pick away at it. (Sanguine Blade will outdamage Atonement with a Refresh/INT atma AND heal the tank.)

This should keep you alive and get it pushed down before rage time no sweat.

Thank you :3 I presume Shadowbind > Run Away for Meikyo Shisui? And Scherzo/VIT etude for the PLD?

[Cream Soda]

Ok, so I was looking at Keitonotachi for sam.

I'm a mnk main, so not very enthusiastic about doing magians for Samurai. Almost to the point where I'm willing to just continue using Hagun until a better AH/Rare/ex non magian option makes itself available.

Despite that, I was intrigued by the 5hit Keitonotachi w/ the WS dmg+10%. Whether I get it or not simply comes down to this. Does it require me to have rose strap or to tp in Hachiman? This is deal breaker for me. I haven't done campaign in over a year and I don't plan to start now.

If I can 5-hit it w/ what I have, I'll (usu body, shoes, rajas, brutal) and what I'm willing to work on (sam af3+1 (or 2 but mnk is my priority for +2), JSE neck (Don't feel like goading belt), then I'll get one. If not, I'll stick w/ Hagun.