Random Question Thread XIV: No Not XIV, XI

[Andradi]

Isn't this more up your alley?

[Cream Soda]

Oh definitely, but I only use sam for the higher defense mobs that you benefit from Gekko. Otherwise I just beast it out on mnk

[BoomStick]

Don't have FFXI Calc Cream Soda? Add up your stp for TP and WS, mix it around, see if you need rose/hachiman (you shouldn't). Especially if you have AF+1/+2 for sam now.

Also a few other things I saw in this thread:

Briareus can be done with a standard melee party (2 melee tanks, support), just kite during his 2 hour. It's nice to have a stun for his shitty TP move during his 2 hour, but that just buys you some time to get away. Other than that the fight is a joke.

[Byrthnoth]

12.2*x*4 + 12.2*y = 100
So you need somewhere around 65 or 66 STP to make a comfortable 5-hit where you can swap out some gear for WS.

35+7+5+6+1 = 54

AF3+1 head and legs make it 64. 65 or 66 would be more comfortable so you could move gear around for WS, so Unkai Nodawa.

Anyway, yeah you could.

[Cream Soda]

Don't have FFXI Calc Cream Soda? Add up your stp for TP and WS, mix it around, see if you need rose/hachiman (you shouldn't). Especially if you have AF+1/+2 for sam now.

Also a few other things I saw in this thread:

Briareus can be done with a standard melee party (2 melee tanks, support), just kite during his 2 hour. It's nice to have a stun for his shitty TP move during his 2 hour, but that just buys you some time to get away. Other than that the fight is a joke.

Not with me. Diff laptop, in class atm.

[Cream Soda]

12.2*x*4 + 12.2*y = 100
So you need somewhere around 65 or 66 STP to make a comfortable 5-hit where you can swap out some gear for WS.

35+7+5+6+1 = 54

AF3+1 head and legs make it 64. 65 or 66 would be more comfortable so you could move gear around for WS, so Unkai Nodawa.

Anyway, yeah you could.

Alright, thanks. Also, until I get the af3+1 pieces, 6hit on that gkt vs hagun 6hit?

[Jeryhn]

Thank you :3 I presume Shadowbind > Run Away for Meikyo Shisui? And Scherzo/VIT etude for the PLD?

Yes, Shadowbind will work perfectly for avoiding Meikyo. And I was thinking Scherzo/March (just to make the PLD TP faster for more Sanguines).

[fallenleaf]

Having a tough time deciding between the STP +13 Katana or the WS DMG+10% for ninja. I have, or will have, the OA2-3 katana and the dex/acc one. I tend to break even between time spent on /dnc and /war. Any suggestions?

[ronin sparthos]

Ok, so I was looking at Keitonotachi for sam.

I'm a mnk main, so not very enthusiastic about doing magians for Samurai. Almost to the point where I'm willing to just continue using Hagun until a better AH/Rare/ex non magian option makes itself available.

Despite that, I was intrigued by the 5hit Keitonotachi w/ the WS dmg+10%. Whether I get it or not simply comes down to this. Does it require me to have rose strap or to tp in Hachiman? This is deal breaker for me. I haven't done campaign in over a year and I don't plan to start now.

If I can 5-hit it w/ what I have, I'll (usu body, shoes, rajas, brutal) and what I'm willing to work on (sam af3+1 (or 2 but mnk is my priority for +2), JSE neck (Don't feel like goading belt), then I'll get one. If not, I'll stick w/ Hagun.

Would Ishikirimaru not be an option for you if you really just want to avoid magians?

[FailureMidgard]

As far as I understand it, it's not a contradiction. He's saying that regen is only necessary to the extent that the WHM needs to save MP. Since MP is non-issue for WHM in abyssea, it is not needed. On the other hand, this tells us nothing about the recipients of devotion. Thus, the distinction lies between the target of devotion and the initiator. For example, one could argue that BLM, unlike WHM, will have MP issues because of the rate they spam nukes. This would follow this argument without providing a counterexample. Another interpretation that would save his argument from contradiction stems from the fact that they're two different merit categories. Consequently, and it would have to be a hidden premise of his (Hence, why I won't explicitly state it's his justification), one might argue for devotion because comparatively, there is no ulterior option.

This. I can nuke through my mp faster than i recover it on rdm, and rdm has /sch, refresh2 (which blm may or may not have), more frequent verts, and lower mp nukes. If a blm isn't going through his mp much faster than he can recover it, he's probably doing something wrong.

I'd like to know what you're fighting in that case where you have a white mage in a party with a black mage and are still able to run out of mp. Killing the t2 Orobon with ~3 mages, nobody will run out of mp (mp pool, convert, and martello in addition to refresh ticks) before it dies. Drop to 2 mages and maybe, but are you really going to add a white mage as a 3rd person? Extending this further, vs pretty much any tier1, you'll only run out of mp if you are solo before the mob dies. If you have 2 red mages, 1 mp pool + 1 convert pool will kill anything. Moving onward, the mere fact a white mage is there means that there are melee or a tank there and a black mage's first goal should be to trigger grellow !!!s which includes being sure to cast elemental dots, drain, aspir, t1-4s, etc, and it's still hard for them to get through all of that before 2 melee kill -any- NM in Abyssea. Past that, if they are just going for pure damage because their goal is not to get af3 materials, it seems quite counter-productive for a blm to pull hate off of the melee and make the melee chase it around.

In any case, I will admit there is a way it isn't contradictory, but it is still stupid. Barspells are far from special, inside or outside abyssea, and while it is a valid merit choice (because regen merits are likewise far from special, but better in my personal opinion), it is in no way required. Devotion 1/5 should be required outside Abyssea, but going to 5/5 (which I do have) rarely finds use, as most fights should be finished before you need to use a 2nd devotion (though, sometimes you do use it). Inside Abyssea, I'm sorry, but I still don't see a use at all. The only use I've seen for devotion since the 85 cap was doing Surya's+1, and a white mage didn't have a better job to come on, but it definitely helped at the W-Saruta camp where the blms had to roam (and mine was only 81 so no refresh).

Also rog, your comparison of rdm to blm mp burned is meh in my opinion. First off you're assuming /sch, which is ok, but I still find myself going /nin to most things (and if it's easy enough to /sch, I'm probably Hasso tanking it on Sam...perhaps Orobons aside). Second off, you're ignoring fast cast and the fact most red mages are willing to rotate through more spells than black mages who have an extra 10 MAB from merits, as well as the fact red mages get off far more casts than black mages (not only do t3s cast faster, but more fast cast traits and pre-cast gear).

I still don't think that anyone realistically needs devotion inside abyssea. And even if they did, there are 0 fights in Abyssea that are longer than 10 minutes (though the person has to burn MP first, so more fair to look for 12-14 min) in any setup that requires a white mage.


CreamSoda - Use the petrify GK with a 5hit from Bukhis like RoninSparthos said. It does require a little more StoreTP outside of Usux2+Rajas+Brutal (unless you have regain in abyssea), but it's 100% drop and a joke to get. Though it's worth mentioning the +10% dmg GK will likely get new trials to make it better.

[buddha_masta]

Would Ishikirimaru not be an option for you if you really just want to avoid magians?

That's a nice looking GKT. How does that stack up to the other 5 hits available out there right now, like Keito? Assuming no sacrifice in haste at all to attain 5hit in either build. 480 delay vs 464.. really high base DMG here.. Looks like top-tier contender, but just my opinion. Thoughts?

[azagarth]

does any have or know where to find a good pup xml for spellcast? The ones on the windower site are years old and have nothing to them.

[BoomStick]

Where does the +10% in the WS damage occur in the WS damage formula? Because I'm getting the Keito as being pretty close to the Petrify katana in DPS. Either way, I guess if not doing magians was the end goal, doesn't matter.

[rog]

illing the t2 Orobon with ~3 mages, nobody will run out of mp (mp pool, convert, and martello in addition to refresh ticks) before it dies. Drop to 2 mages and maybe, but are you really going to add a white mage as a 3rd person?

I occasionally duo with someone who only has whm and smn. Normally i take smn, but every so often we farm time with the ls first, so he's on whm anyway. 500 mp devos were pretty cool for that.

[Kirschy]

I didn't see it considered, but you can also use a Hoard Ring to help /w a Keitonotachi +1 5-hit. I am using it currently until I get sam AF3+1 head. (Also lets me use Ace's Sabatons which gives me ~23.5% haste /w hasso up.) The magian trials for it are not bad at all, and it's a significant improvement over Hagun as long as decent player~ And as Failure said, it'll prob get another boost next update.

[BoomStick]

I'm on the fence with Ace's Sabatons. It's 11 less accuracy than usukane, for 1% haste. So unless you're more than 2% overcapped on acc, fuma's or Usukane would be superior (depending on stp needed). Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way arguing that when you don't need the acc and can make use of the stp that Ace's rock, it just seems that -11 acc over usukane (if you need the stp), or 4 less than fuma (if you don't need the stp) will end up hurting more than helping.

I guess I just need to get my parser working to determine just what hit rate %s I am on any given Abyssea mob/NM. Are people finding themselves acc capped 100% of the time on almost all abyssea NMs (even the higher ones), not counting the Mis fly?

I just feel a bit uncomfortable using an item that would provide a pretty decent hit rate decrease when not capped on acc in situations where I'm fighting multiple NMs with varying evasion. Thoughts?

Also, what would be the spellcast for swapping back to fuma/usukane during blind? I know
<if status=blind>
action type = equip -> Usukane Sune ate
</endif>
Would I need to use some "on action" commands or simply paste the above into my script?

[Kirschy]

Where does the +10% in the WS damage occur in the WS damage formula? Because I'm getting the Keito as being pretty close to the Petrify katana in DPS. Either way, I guess if not doing magians was the end goal, doesn't matter.

It appears to occur at the end like other WS Damage+%. I think your calculations are wrong though. Keitontachi +1 5-hit is significantly better than the Petrify GKT. Although Keito has a few less base DMG, it has faster delay, WS DMG+10% (which is a larger part of a sam's damage), and doesn't sacrifice any vital eq to obtain a 5-hit.

[Kirschy]

I'm on the fence with Ace's Sabatons. It's 11 less accuracy than usukane, for 1% haste. So unless you're more than 2% overcapped on acc, fuma's or Usukane would be superior (depending on stp needed). Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way arguing that when you don't need the acc and can make use of the stp that Ace's rock, it just seems that -11 acc over usukane (if you need the stp), or 4 less than fuma (if you don't need the stp) will end up hurting more than helping.

I guess I just need to get my parser working to determine just what hit rate %s I am on any given Abyssea mob/NM. Are people finding themselves acc capped 100% of the time on almost all abyssea NMs (even the higher ones), not counting the Mis fly?

I just feel a bit uncomfortable using an item that would provide a pretty decent hit rate decrease when not capped on acc in situations where I'm fighting multiple NMs with varying evasion. Thoughts?

Also, what would be the spellcast for swapping back to fuma/usukane during blind? I know
<if status=blind>
action type = equip -> Usukane Sune ate
</endif>
Would I need to use some "on action" commands or simply paste the above into my script?

I can't speak for others, but when I play SAM in abyssea I use pizza. It's a cheap 3hr food. I'm either attack capped with close to it /w my Atma. (I'm def attack capped during Gekko.) And the acc+ from pizza keeps me way over acc cap. Outside of Abyssea the extra GKT skill and level correction has me capped in everything from Dynamis-Xarc to Einherjar. I feel Ace's Sabatons are a great piece majority of the time, but if I fight something where I'm not acc capped, I swap over to Usu Feet and it's no trouble.

[FailureMidgard]

I occasionally duo with someone who only has whm and smn. Normally i take smn, but every so often we farm time with the ls first, so he's on whm anyway. 500 mp devos were pretty cool for that.

I mean sure, I guess, if you have a whm there from an exp party with a ton of time...but you have to realize that's a silly corner case, about as silly as me saying you need to level your /whm incase you do a party on Cocks and nobody else can stona. And even with that, I doubt any of your fights lasted long enough to make use of a 5/5 devotion over a 1/5 devotion. Again, devotion is a great thing, I'm just saying Abyssea has made it close to worthless, and the shit you're arguing atm is only arguing how close to worthless it is while maintaining it isn't 100% worthless, not that it's an amazing ability and you'd make use of it in a normal situation.

[BoomStick]

I can't speak for others, but when I play SAM in abyssea I use pizza. It's a cheap 3hr food. I'm either attack capped with close to it /w my Atma. (I'm def attack capped during Gekko.) And the acc+ from pizza keeps me way over acc cap. Outside of Abyssea the extra GKT skill and level correction has me capped in everything from Dynamis-Xarc to Einherjar. I feel Ace's Sabatons are a great piece majority of the time, but if I fight something where I'm not acc capped, I swap over to Usu Feet and it's no trouble.

So it would be {(D + fstr + WSC*@)*ftp*pdif}*1.10?