Crafting specific question thread. Moar undyed canvas.

[Spider-Dan]

My personal setup for CRP50:
Multi-turn abilities
• Masterpiece (WVR10 - Increased 'Careful' success)
• Fullfillment (LTW10 - Increased success)
• Preserve (ALC10 - Forced white orb)
• Hand of the Gods (ALC36 - No durability loss)

Fixed (you had three abilities listed as ALC10).

Right now, I think I'm running:

2x single-use +quality: Immersion (WVR30), Epiphany (GSM10)
5x three/four turn buffs: Masterpiece (WVR10), Maker's Muse (BSM10), Fulfillment (LTW10), Tender Touch (CRP10), Preserve (ALC10)
2x +30% actions: Grand Design (WVR30), Assemble (CRP30)
Perfection (CRP36)

(I don't have Hand of the Gods; if I did, it would replace Maker's Muse)

I set my action bar worst-to-best (left to right) so that during crafts, I just tap up to see what the best available action is. (This was more significant when action availability was not as consistent.)

[Raldo]

Ah, good catch. Too much copy-pasta today. I'll have to try the positioning of abilities so it's easier to see the best option like you do.

You use that setup for general crafting, or for trying to HQ? I don't really see the point in using Maker's Muse anymore unless you're just grinding for exp.

Shameless Repost of my questions because new page <_<

Spoiler: show

1) I hadn't thought to use Tender Touch since the big crafting change. Can anyone tell me how much it cuts down on durability loss?

2) Extrapolation is GREAT on my Alchemist, but I hadn't thought to try equipping it on any other job. Has anyone tried that to see if you get decent quality gains even if your class/tool isn't tailored for the stat in question (Extrapolation, Determination, etc.)?

3) WTF does Supplement accomplish?

[Spider-Dan]

I guess I could replace Maker's Muse with Grandmastery or something, but that ability seems a little too placebo to even make it to my bar. I guess Maker's Muse is just a placeholder until I get bored enough to get ALC to 36.

[Spider-Dan]

So with the new crafting system, has anyone figured out which crafts are dependent on Craftsmanship, and which are dependent on Magic Craftsmanship? Is there any testing being done to this end?

[Raldo]

No testing done to my knowledge. I tend to assume craftsmanship unless I'm inclined to think otherwise (super helpful, I know) except ALC/CUL, where I generally assume m.craft. That said, I tend to keep them pretty close to each other. My CRP rolls around with approx 130 of both craft types unless I really think I know which type it requires.

As far as crafting gear is concerned, if the end-result is specialized for mages, it's generally safe to assume m.craft. The difficulty is determining materials... someone once told me that making ingots was m.craft, but I've yet to dabble in any metallurgy. I think it's safe to assume that if you're making a synth who has two HQ states (+1 vs increased quantity), if you get +1 from mainhand, the synth probably relies on craft; if you get +1 from offhand, the synth probably relies on m.craft. I say this because offhand tools always have higher m.craft, and the opposite for mainhand tools. Unsurprisingly, if you want +1 growth formula, I think you need to use the offhand tool (I could be wrong about that!!).

Is there any online database (besides yg because it's not accurate anymore) that tracks whether mainhand/offhand grants you increased quality vs quantity?

[Niiro]

I can't think of a reliable way to test craft vs m.craft that isn't extremely tedious, but if general trends could be identified it would go a long way and save us from having to test every synth individually.

Basically synth an item of considerably difficulty geared totally toward one or the other, use standard on white/yellow orbs only throughout the synth (wait if necessary, preserve would help) and parse your rate of success/neutral/failure and the % increases of each.

Does a parser that handles crafting exist?

[jwang]

Another problem with testing success rate relationships is that unless they have changed it, success rate goes down as progress increases. This would add another layer of complexity to the whole thing.

[Niiro]

Pretty sure the only thing that changes with progress is increased likelihood of elemental instability.

[Raldo]

It's not necessarily progress that affects it, but that hidden 'risk' factor that several crafting abilities mention.

[Spider-Dan]

Well, now that quality has a much more direct effect on HQ, I'd think we just need success/fail rate on attempts; if you have a lower fail rate with m.craft gear, it's an m.craft recipe, and vice versa.

[Raldo]

To test it though you'd need to buy a weathered tool and waste a bunch of time and materials. I think that's why no one's done it. Yaaaaaaawnfest.

[Drako]

inspiration is great to use together with the single use quality ones (like immersion, innovation, inner quiet), the ones that use the main stat for quality are also very good to use with them, but a little worse, its better to use just careful when you have it.

im also saving perfection for a rapid in the end, since it doesnt lose any durability when doing so, i have failed way too much times having less than 10-15 dura and failing a standard.

[Raldo]

Inspiration isn't a single-turn ability? Hot damn, I just need to level everything.

[Grey Jorildyn]

The ten abilities I use are pretty similar to everyone else's, with minor adjustment. Will explain below, in order of ideal use each synth.

1. Assemble/similar match ability for the synth: I try to use this first, as it will determine how I use my Perfection or HotG later.
2. Hand of the Gods: Obvious, use to spam carefuls. If above ability fails, I'll try to throw in a Standard or two for progression, then use the leftover tries stacked with abilities 3-6.
3. Epiphany
4. Immersion
5. Inner Quiet
6. Innovation: Just used when I feel I can squeeze some extra quality out if my duabilityrogress ratio is good for me (goal to this point in synth is usually minimum 60%/90+ durability.
7. Harmonize: Put here since risk usually is very high at this point, but can be used after...
8. Masterpiece: If I had to use my HotG for standards/rapids, I will use whatever is left of 3-5 with these attempts for large quality gains.
9. Perfection: Sometimes this is lower in the order, depending on if I want to Rapid for progress. If used later, almost always a Careful.
10. Ingenuity: This doesn't get mentioned often, but it reduces the synthesis difficulty for 3 (4 for parts). This is incredibly useful when doing those level 51+ synths, as it makes the synth "feel" like it's 5-7 levels lower. This has been a clutch ability for me on HQing stuff like Cobalt Haubergeons/Mitts, etc.

One thing I'd like to note is that as I level up, I add the abilities from 3-6 gradually, keeping the turn-based ones on first in the order on my list. Although Ingenuity is really a personal favorite of mine and if I was leveling up all over again, I'd probably put it on before the "assemble"-like abilities.

Anyway, it's wordy but pretty straight forward for the seasoned crafter.

[Raldo]

I think I may take your advice and throw Harmonize in there as well as Ingenuity if/when I get it.

Assuming I'm reading your post correctly... You really use HoTG so early in your synthesis, and with your quality+ abilities? I'd avoid that and instead pair your quality+ abilities with Masterpiece and use Masterpiece before HoTG for a couple of reasons.

1) HoTG already cuts your success rates, so do you really want to waste your quality+ abilities while your success rates are lowered?
2) I'm under the assumption that failures raise "risk" more than successes. Do you really want to use HoTG so early, potentially raising your risk early due to lowered success rates?

Your synthesis process is nearly identical to mine except for your placement of HoTG and Masterpiece.

[Aratharn]

+1 to Ingenuity being really helpful.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Wel, it just depends really. You're right, and I should clarify. If it's a low level synth, it almost doesn't matter and I'll use them with Masterpiece. If Assemble fails I use HotG for progress (1-2 tries), then the last are bolds. It is generally a better idea to use the quality enhancers with Masterpiece, but on over 50-synths with MP on, careful will fail anyway. Ingenuity is actually a better ability to stack the enhancers with on those synths, I've found.

[Raldo]

Cools. To save anyone the trouble (since I just had to look it up), Ingenuity is BSM30: "Temporarily reduces synthesis difficulty. Most effective for parts."

[Niiro]

I always wondered how people got the numbers they did for Ingenuity.

Also, I've always been dubious of the descriptions on the 30% abilities. What does the "...but reduces chances of success." bit actually mean?

That the skill has lesser chance of succeeding? If so compared to what?

Does it lower success rates for all actions? Is it temporary or for the whole rest of the synth?

[miokomioko]

I always wondered how people got the numbers they did for Ingenuity.

Also, I've always been dubious of the descriptions on the 30% abilities. What does the "...but reduces chances of success." bit actually mean?

That the skill has lesser chance of succeeding? If so compared to what?

Does it lower success rates for all actions? Is it temporary or for the whole rest of the synth?

From my experience, all actions (standard/careful/rapid) become notably fail-happy when Hand of the Gods is active but that effect goes away when it wears off.