Crafting specific question thread. Moar undyed canvas.

**Ksandra** · 2012-07-08 15:21

ok ya I noticed it on the special ones so just wanted to make sure. thanks!

**Niiro** · 2012-07-08 16:19

Yea until they added Spruce pattens just a little while ago there were no meld-able 41+ shoes for mages that actually had mage stats so they were really the only option (and other than AF, no worthwhile ra/ex options to speak of either).

The stats on them and the INT/MND versions being craft only was just SE not paying attention, they sort of flubbed the established rules of base item + enhanced.

Base items (no equip restrictions) are supposed to have either general combat stats or crafting/gathering stats.

Enhancing base items with general combat stats results in different versions for melees ("of war"), mages ("of casting/invoking"), or DoL/DoH ("of toiling") with appropriate stats and equip restrictions.

Enhancing base items with crafting/gathering stats results in either more specification towards one or the other ("of crafting/gathering") or adds base stats that certain DoL/DoH use ("of strength/intellgience/etc").

Mahog/Oak pattens just kinda fucked with the formula, the base item had both general combat stats and crafting stats, but the enhanced versions went the route of the DoL/DoH gear trend, it just so happened that SE decided shoes would be where crafters could get the magely stats used in crafting.

So they basically mushed together the 2 different kinds of base items and designed the enhancements on the crafting item model, coincidentally deciding shoes would be the slot for INT/MND crafting gear, while forgetting that there were no useful shoe options for mages 41+, thus many were left confused and/or greatly disappointed when they couldn't wear their shoes with mage stats on their mage.

**Ksandra** · 2012-07-08 16:24

ahhhh thanks for the clarification. that makes a lot of sense

**Grey Jorildyn** · 2012-07-08 17:53

It does, and yet it doesn't!

**Enygma55** · 2012-07-09 00:37

Originally Posted by Ragnell

I haven't done any crafts yet, but Any map you can give will be helpful, I'd probably go with arm/gold

Well you'll want to get BSM to 10 to get Maker's Muse (guarantees 3 standard synths) and possibly Alchemy to 10 for Aspect Balance (guarantees 3 white orbs).

Can get BSM up by making bronze nuggets(r4) > dated bronze needles(r6) > bronze hooks(r12) > bronze javalin head(r18 ). Copper and Tin ore are dirt cheap and you can npc most of this for break even cost minus shard cost ofcourse. They can be bought at various NPCs.

For ALC if you can get to lv 3-4 you can sit in alc guild and buy 4xCinderfoot Olive from npc and make 12xOlive Oil and NPC it for a net loss of 120 gil per synth lv 13 recipe.

GSM can go Brass nuggets(r4) > Brass Pummel(r11) > silver nugget(r14) or brass himantes grips(r16) > dated brass earring(r22) or dated brass ring(r24) or silver fishhooks(r25) > obsidian arrowheads(r30) or dated silver earring(r32) or dated silver needle(r33)

These are simplest most cost effective I can find if you just npc everything and easy on the inventory as they all require just brass or silver nuggets.

**Teron** · 2012-07-10 09:30

Originally Posted by Ragnell

I haven't done any crafts yet, but Any map you can give will be helpful, I'd probably go with arm/gold

Some roads I took:

Blacksmith

Spoiler: show

Goldsmith

Spoiler: show

Leatherworking

Spoiler: show

Woodworking

Spoiler: show

**Raldo** · 2012-07-10 12:39

Fleece (LTW43), Yew Lumber (CRP23), and Dated Yew Halfmask (CRP40) are excellent dated synths to use while they still last. At this point, I'm inclined to believe that dated synths will stay in until 2.0 hits.

**Ksandra** · 2012-07-10 13:40

arrows (new, not old) are really good to make while skilling if you've got a mule in ul'dah to sell them. They give decent money and sell rather quickly.

**Khrno** · 2012-07-18 15:45

So I'm back in the game after a 6 months hiatus and I want to re-equip my BSM 50, I know that STR is the stat for Main tool, and MND for Offhand.

Are there any caps I should aim for STR, Craft., M.Craft., Control? Thanks.

**Raldo** · 2012-07-18 16:17

Little conclusive research has been done for the crafting stats, so it's hard to say. I just try to strike a balance with all the stats and then push the base attribute wherever possible, but I have heard other completely valid setups as well. Some people swear by control, others think it's nigh-useless. It's a crapshoot, really.

You probably already know, but since you're asking about stats I'll throw this in for good measure...
• Base attribute affects quality gains.
• Control reduces the chance of going unstable/chaotic/sparks.
• Craft/M.Craft are a bit hazy, but they're supposed to increase success rates + progress gains. Synths should be affected by one or the other of these two, but that's another thing with little conclusive research.
• Every synth has some sort of set requirements for stats that if you don't meet them, your progress/quality will be hindered.

*Those last two points are from official info that's almost two years old, so take it with a grain of salt.

**Niiro** · 2012-07-18 17:23

In the handful of crafts I've tested all were effected by both craft and mcraft, it's possible one may carry more weight than the other but I've never seen a significant difference between the two.

Using broken weathered tools and only gear to increase stats, 56 craft/0 mcraft and 0 craft/57 mcraft had nearly identical effects on synths of various levels (highest was R51) across different classes.

The testing was very limited (in addition to controlling the numerous variables everything has to be recorded manually, and there's a lot to record), but considering that by R50 you have well over 100 of both stats, the fact that 56 craft and 57 mcraft performed the same on a R51 synth tells me:

A: The relative effects of the favored stat over the non-favored stat vary by synth
B: Only some synths even have a favored stat at all (and none of the ones I tested happened to)
C: The difference between the favored and non-favored stat is miniscule-to-non-existent
D: SE is full of shit

The 4th bullet point from Raldo's post referencing the old SE dev post I know is full of shit, as I was able to complete synths with 0 craft/mcraft. There was no discernible "tier" to break or minimum to fulfill, adding stats made for more success and more progress, but nothing prevented me from completing the synths in any unique way.

**Raldo** · 2012-07-18 19:57

Yeah, hence the fine print :/

I'd like more info, but at this point, it's easier if they just clam up until 2.0 hits because I'm sure that'll mess with things again. It's statments like yours that make me just try to keep all my stats about the same.

**Ksandra** · 2012-07-22 01:34

Originally Posted by Raldo

Little conclusive research has been done for the crafting stats, so it's hard to say. I just try to strike a balance with all the stats and then push the base attribute wherever possible, but I have heard other completely valid setups as well. Some people swear by control, others think it's nigh-useless. It's a crapshoot, really.

You probably already know, but since you're asking about stats I'll throw this in for good measure...
• Base attribute affects quality gains.
• Control reduces the chance of going unstable/chaotic/sparks.
• Craft/M.Craft are a bit hazy, but they're supposed to increase success rates + progress gains. Synths should be affected by one or the other of these two, but that's another thing with little conclusive research.
• Every synth has some sort of set requirements for stats that if you don't meet them, your progress/quality will be hindered.

*Those last two points are from official info that's almost two years old, so take it with a grain of salt.

does this mean it's better to have the highest meldable tool with a double stat meld on it than it is to have the achievement tool? I'm 48 crp so far and I have made the lvl 54 item np (only 55 is sargna, and I will probably never bother making it anyways as the mats sell for more than the bow itself). so it would seem more craftmanship isn't necessary, but I could get a lot more vit+ for hqing out of the bass-relief cobalt saw. Or am I missing something? (curious 'cause I've been working on the achievement bit by bit, but after reading this, I may say "fuck it")

**Niiro** · 2012-07-22 10:38

I've never heard of any testing done as far as how base stats effect quality gains. Unfortunately there's a lot of questions to be answered before you could even really begin any conclusive testing (nvm craft testing is pretty arduous to begin with). ie. Does it raise max potential quality gain per action? Increase the odds of quality gains falling in the higher range? Simply act as a modifier?

I've never focused on them, simply put them where most convenient without sacrificing crafting stats or having multiple versions of the same pieces (felt gloves of DEX + DEX meld, felt gown of VIT + VIT meld, VIT/DEX meld on pants, appropriate stat ring for second slot to go with GC ring).

**Ksandra** · 2012-07-24 00:24

ok to go along with that then, what to people usually do in regards to hqing items? like what abilities do you find working well for you?

I found this guide:

http://xivpads.com/?-Guides&Guide:_H...all_the_things

It's a little confusing. It sounds like he suggests using these five abilities for higher crafts:

Byregot's Blessing
Improvise
Fit for Kings
Master's Mend
Piece by Piece

But the part that seems odd to me is improvise. That requires elemental instability, but he stacks a whole lot of control which would make that rarely happen right?, then doesn't have a brand to get out of it. thoughts?

**Datonare** · 2012-07-24 00:30

I do: Byregot's Blessing, Culmination, Perfection, By the Book, and Piece by Piece.

Byregots > Careful > Cumination > Careful > Perfection > Careful spam til 10 or less durability. Then just BtB and PbP to finish up.

**Tsakiki** · 2012-07-24 05:49

For higher level (40+ maybe) synths I use Byregot's Blessing, Culmination, Perfection, Master's Mend and Piece by Piece. For lower level I swap Culmination and Perfection for Purification and Heart & Soul.

I use careful until I get a rainbow orb, then I use Byregot's Blessing + Culmination (or Purification) + careful, if next orb is rainbow I use Perfection (or Heart & Soul) + careful, otherwise just careful. On the third action with Byregot's Blessing, I use Purification (or Heart & Soul) + careful if I didn't use it on the second, otherwise just careful. I use Master's Mend some time before durability drops under 10, usually on red orb, and do mostly carefuls to get 70% (or more) progress before durability is gone. I usually need one standard in there, and try to do that on white orb. Piece by Piece is saved for last to finish up.

This has been working really well for me. I don't like the abilities that rely on specific conditions, and I don't like not using ensures great success with high level synths. Waiting for rainbow orbs for the quality boosting actions gets the most out of their quality boosts.

**Aratharn** · 2012-07-24 09:46

Originally Posted by Datonare

Careful spam til 10 or less durability.

Learned the hard way breaking an LS mates Astrolabe when I careful'd with 10 dura left and lost all 10.

**Niiro** · 2012-07-24 10:39

Originally Posted by Datonare

I do: Byregot's Blessing, Culmination, Perfection, By the Book, and Piece by Piece.

Byregots > Careful > Cumination > Careful > Perfection > Careful spam til 10 or less durability. Then just BtB and PbP to finish up.

+

Originally Posted by Tsakiki

I don't like the abilities that rely on specific conditions, and I don't like not using ensures great success with high level synths. Waiting for rainbow orbs for the quality boosting actions gets the most out of their quality boosts.

...is what I use for higher level synths.

For stuff below 40 or so I do Greater Calling, Manipulation (don't have ALC for Mend), +50% quality x3, +50% quality x3, Byregot's.

I would do 3 +50% quality abilities but I risk running out of durability before I can use them all so I replace the last with +dura. Since I'm not as concerned about instability on lower level stuff I use Greater Calling + Rapidx3 to finish (45-60% progress) instead of pure progress abilities.

And 10 remaining dura on a high stakes synth is the fucking worst.

**Raldo** · 2012-07-24 10:51

In other words, guides should be used as a baseline for newbies, but once you understand how stuff works, you should blaze your own trail.

Personally, I craft similar to what Tsakiki + Niiro have said. Not because that's what anyone told me to do, but because that's just what I've found to work for me. I generally craft with Byregot's, Perfection, Master's Mend, Culmination, and a +20% Progress ability (I don't have ARM/GSM leveled).

I find that Onion Lotion guy (who wrote the aforementioned guide) to be like a religious nutjob. I don't understand why he does what he does, but if it works for him, great. I just wish he would shut up about it, because it doesn't make any sense to me, and he runs around spouting it off like it's fact. I've called him on his shit several times on the official forums.

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