Miner Class Discussion Thread

**NEmINIS** · 2011-10-16 06:35

Fosilized (sp?) Matter seems to be 0 as sweetspot for me in cohertas (mining).

**Jamison** · 2011-10-28 09:16

So here's a summary of 1.19 and also updated information recently released on what stats do:

Looks like base EXP gain is up about another 20% on top of the 1.18 numbers (which was up about 50% from 1.17).
Loot tables completely redone again. Now the loot is per ZONE, and every node in the zone gives the same items. Basically it is a lot more simplified, to go along with the simplification of recipes. There are still no items that are particularly difficult to obtain. [LINK]
+1 and +2 is eliminated, now there is just NQ and +3.
New tools and non-dated gear are available (including the Plummed Cobalt Dolabra). Gear now often gives you a choice between different stats in the same slot, so you can think about what you want to focus on a little bit more.
Here's what materia type/stat can go on to each slot:
- VIT - BODY, TOOL
- MIND - HEAD, TOOL
- VIT(DEX/STR) - LEGS (Ironman's Will & Watchman's Vigil)
- MIND(INT/PIE) - LEGS (Loresman's Wit & Vestryman's Faith)
- [Elemental] Resistance - Secondary Tool, BODY, WAIST ([Elemental] Veil)
- Gathering - TOOL (Guerdon)
- Perception - TOOL (Guile)
- Output - TOOL (Grasp)
I mention Elemental Resistance only on the chance that still affects what shard type is found. More interestingly though, nothing of any use is on Hands, Feet or Waist. To me, it feels like there hasn't been much thought/balancing done with materia in regards to gathering... and at any rate every item is pretty much trivial to get right now, some stuff might help while leveling up but otherwise this doesn't do all that much good.

A shame gathering/perception/output can only go on a tool. If there was a known stat to help abilities proc more often, that would be valuable. Otherwise I guess just stack mind for multiple items.
Information on stats have been given by the devs. It looks like VIT (the only stat not really known about) is for increasing the size of the hitzone for an item. I had thought (through observation only) that was also perception. Assuming this list is comprehensive, there is no stat to effect how often abilities proc or their relative strength.
- VIT: During the mining approach phase, it will be easier to determine the proper force needed for each item.
- MND: Number of items acquired by miners will be increased.
- Gathering: Lessens depletion of the Remainder gauge when using a main hand tool, and increases the chance of gathering items when using an off hand tool.
- Output: Increases the number of gathers or hooked fish.
- Perception: Makes it easier to obtain high quality items.
The ability "Fingerprints of the Gods" allows you to find catalysts while gathering. If you complete the quest "Joining the Spirit" (given by Kokosamu) to get the ability. The quest is simply to find a nearby mining point by the NPC (it wasn't right were the ??? was on the map for me) and gather a catalyst. Once you've set the ability and it triggers, *then* you move your aim to the sweet spot for the catalyst and it is a guaranteed success. It's still possible to gather the catalyst while not on the sweet spot, but at a low rate.
I'll correct this later if I'm wrong, but I do believe every Mining and Botany catalyst sweet spot is at +5, while fishing is entirely at -5.
I'm not sure exactly when they started doing this, but they seem to now be referring to the first part of the gathering mini-game as "aim" and the second part as "force".

Here's the (full) two posts that revealed stat information:

Spoiler: show

So physical and magical critical hit rate are no longer be affected by attributes?

Yes, physical and magic critical hit rate will no longer be affected by attributes. They will only be affected by gear.

There is physical defense listed, but no magic defense. Which attribute will affect the amount of damage received from magic? What kind of effect does magic evasion have?

Magic defense was removed in patch 1.19.

Magic defense will be affected by elemental attributes. Each elemental attribute will reduce the magic damage received based on the element of the spell being cast.

Magic evasion is a parameter which determines what amount of damage and debuffs can be avoided when being hit by an enemy’s spell.

Is physical evasion not affected by attributes?

Yes, physical evasion is not affected by attributes. Physical evasion is determined by your level.

What was the reasoning behind the stat effect changes?

The changes are a continuation of the battle system revamps that started in patch 1.18, future class adjustments, and action review for each battle class. We will be posting more information regarding these changes and the direction of future class revamps on Topics and the official forums so please stay tuned.

This may be a separate topic, but where is the information for Disciples of the Land and Hand? Do they receive no effect from stats?

Attribute effects for Disciples of the Land:
STR: During the logging approach phase, it will be easier to determine the proper angle for each item.
VIT: During the mining approach phase, it will be easier to determine the proper force needed for each item.
DEX: During the fishing approach phase, it will be easier to determine the proper rod movement for each item.
INT: Number of items acquired by botanists will be increased.
MND: Number of items acquired by miners will be increased.
PIE: Number of items acquired by fishers will be increased.
Gathering: Lessens depletion of the Remainder gauge when using a main hand tool, and increases the chance of gathering items when using an off hand tool.
Output: Increases the number of gathers or hooked fish.
Perception: Makes it easier to obtain high quality items.

Attributes for Disciples of the Hand will increase the resulting product's quality.
Carpenter
Main Hand: VIT / Off Hand: DEX
Blacksmith
Main Hand: STR / Off Hand: MND
Armorer
Main Hand: VIT / Off Hand: STR
Goldsmith
Main Hand: DEX / Off Hand: INT
Leatherworker
Main Hand: VIT / Off Hand: INT
Weaver
Main Hand: DEX / Off Hand: MND
Alchemist
Main Hand: INT / Off Hand: PIE
Culinarian
Main Hand: MND / Off Hand: PIE

No changes were made in patch 1.19 for either Disciples of the Land or Disciples of the Hand.

**Jamison** · 2011-12-30 12:20

This thread again? THIS THREAD AGAIN!

The statistician in me finally got the urge to check some numbers. I got tired of SBing dated equipment and started using the new equipment from 1.20. If anyone is willing to contribute their numbers, it would be appreciated. The first thing I'm looking at is the impact of perception on HQ rate, after that I'll look at MND vs multiple item rate.

Mining at Iron Lake:

Perception: 133
Overall gather rate: 26 HQs out of 168 gathers - 15%
With Master ability triggered: 11 HQ out of 31 gathers - 35%
W/O Master ability - 15 HQ out of 137 gathers - 11%

While this isn't enough data to completely nail down the numbers, it does give an idea of where things approximately are. I'll add more numbers to this in the next couple of days. Here are my current conclusions about 1.20 in general:

In general, HQ rate for me was about 1 per node. (Always assuming 1 node is 8 gathers).
Master abilities have an obvious positive impact on HQ rate.
I was aiming for cobalt, and if item rarity has any impact on HQ rate (and I'm not saying it does), these numbers would be skewed slightly lower than for more common items.
The new equipment, in general, gives less gathering (by a bit) but significantly more output and perception. VIT and MND are approximately the same before adding materia, and but boosted overall with materia.
With the new standard gathering gear, gathering stat is at 80, which occasionally is *not* enough to get cobalt ore in 1 hit. I'd say 1 in 10 times it took two hits.
It's not currently possible to swap +output gear for +gathering gear without dropping to 7 hits/node. Food, and/or +output/+gathering on the mh tool should achieve this, though. The magic number for 8 hits/node is somewhere between 111 and 122.
My plan is to add more data with the same perception first, then test other values (unless other folks are able to provide that data first).
I had an ability trigger 13 times on 21 nodes, which is significantly more often than on my BOT (which is not well-geared). Makes me wonder level or some stat has an impact on how often abilities proc.
I think this is new? If you are gathering at a node, and someone else causes it to collapse, it will not count towards the 3 needed to reset a previous node.

**Niiro** · 2011-12-30 12:32

I'd really like to know more about perception, we were told it effected rate of HQs but I always kinda hoped it was a mistranslation/interpretation and rather increased the chance of hitting items aimed for (since no other stat does).

If it really is just rate of HQs it's kinda meh unless you're looking for HQ mats for a specific reason.

As for MND it would be interesting to know, but all the valuable gathers (cobalt, mythril, electrum, raw stones, etc.) are capped at 1 anyway.

**Raldo** · 2011-12-30 16:28

This post is the latest dev post regarding those stats.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...358#post415358

Most people stack perception + secondary stat once gathering is sufficient and output is capped.

I think this is new? If you are gathering at a node, and someone else causes it to collapse, it will not count towards the 3 needed to reset a previous node.

I don't know if it's new, but yeah, you need to fully deplete your allowed gathers per node before it counts toward the three. I have tested this by using shrubs in between trees. I have to harvest all 8 times before I can hit the other tree again.

I had an ability trigger 13 times on 21 nodes, which is significantly more often than on my BOT (which is not well-geared). Makes me wonder level or some stat has an impact on how often abilities proc.

Something affects it, yeah. If you go to a lower grade, you'll find your abilities triggering a lot more.

With the new standard gathering gear, gathering stat is at 80, which occasionally is *not* enough to get cobalt ore in 1 hit. I'd say 1 in 10 times it took two hits.

What 'new equipment' are you referring to? I just wear the token leather jerkin set with cobalt preserves (green) 'cause I can't stand the look of coifs. I realize I can stack my stats higher with other gear, but it's ugly as hell and doesn't make enough difference (as far as I know). My gathering stat is 113 (Botanist), what all are you wearing to only hit 80?

I've never cared enough to try to figure out the exact optimal set of stats, but if you would like me to compile my data, let me know what you want. Currently working toward BTN luminary.

**Jamison** · 2011-12-30 19:08

Originally Posted by Raldo

What 'new equipment' are you referring to?

I considered all the dated tarred leather gear (with iron assault sallet for MIN) to be the standard old gathering gear. Here's what I'm wearing now that I consider to be standard as of 1.20:

Spoiler: show

The difference in this gear (along with moving to Cobalt Dolabra) was a net loss of 32 gathering (from 112 to 80) but a net gain of 44 perception (from 89 to 133), 34 output (from 86 to 122), 13 VIT (from 214 to 227) and 34 MND (from 235 to 269). I belive most of the VIT/MND comes from being able to attach materia; stats from gear were roughly equal.

Hands and feet could be have +output swapped for +gathering, but I don't believe that's a smart move.

And that's why I'm looking into the effect of numbers now. The gains, theorietically, are pretty significant... although it remains to be seen how that translates in to in-game results.

**miokomioko** · 2011-12-31 03:50

Originally Posted by Niiro

I'd really like to know more about perception, we were told it effected rate of HQs but I always kinda hoped it was a mistranslation/interpretation and rather increased the chance of hitting items aimed for (since no other stat does).

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what the physical stat for each DoL does now.

Gathering: ease
Output: attempts
Perception: quality
physical stat: item aim
magical stat: quantity

**Niiro** · 2011-12-31 04:14

What gives you that impression? SE's description was incredibly vague.

**miokomioko** · 2011-12-31 04:24

Everything else for gathering is clearly accounted for and I don't think it's a stretch at all to translate "determining the proper angle for an item during the approach phase" as the initial strike angle and the item that results.

**Pyree** · 2011-12-31 04:41

My gear is pretty similar. I am curious, though, I thought the Gathering stat only affects the rate that the remainder guage goes down, does it affect your strike accuracy as well? Because of this assumption, I use the Linen Bottom for Perception +7 instead of Raptorskin Culottes.

The dev post that made me think that was:

Gathering: Lessens depletion of the Remainder gauge when using a main hand tool, and increases the chance of gathering items when using an off hand tool.

As far as Output goes, you can afford to drop some without any effect (at Lv.50). I don't know the exact amount that you need, but I know that 115 is enough for 8 gathers from grade 5, and 107 is too little. With this in mind, you can swap out the Felt Work Gloves for Cotton Work Gloves to gain Perception +4.

It's not currently possible to swap +output gear for +gathering gear without dropping to 7 hits/node. Food, and/or +output/+gathering on the mh tool should achieve this, though. The magic number for 8 hits/node is somewhere between 111 and 122.

If you were desperate and willing to take a hit in Perception also, you could swap the Woolen Doublet for Woolen Artisan's Apron, Raptorskin Workboots for Raptorskin Thighboots, and Cotton/Felt Work Gloves to Raptorskin Smithy's Gloves.

Using the rest of the gear you list, this should bring your stats to 124 Output, 115 Perception, 101 Gathering. Net changes of +2 Output, +21 Gathering, -18 Perception.

I think this is new? If you are gathering at a node, and someone else causes it to collapse, it will not count towards the 3 needed to reset a previous node.

I know this isn't new as of 1.20, it was this way in 1.19 as well. I can't attest for before that, since I started playing in 1.19.

**Jamison** · 2011-12-31 11:48

At this point, I'm fairly comfortable believing the stats do what they say. Give me a week or three and I'll have the numbers to back that up.

As for the physical stat (VIT in this case), I do believe that is how far off the mark you can be in the second portion of the mini-game and still count as a success. From the developer comment:

VIT: During the mining approach phase, it will be easier to determine the proper force needed for each item.

And from the Loadstone primer on mining (this in explanation of how the 2nd part works):

...will bring up an oscillating cursor and gauge used to determine the force with which the pickaxe is swung.
...Striking with an inappropriate amount of force will yield no items.

Also just noticed, they ninja-edited some ability descriptions again. The level 10 abilities (i.e. Sharp Vision) now read: "Increases your hit range during the approach phase while gathering." Truth of Mountains description says it increases the chances you will get what you aim for. (Something it did exceptionally well at before, and then was broken in, I think, 1.19.)

Anyway, long story short, aim is a clear reference to the first selection on the slider, and approach(force/angle/movement) to the second part.

Originally Posted by Pyree

My gear is pretty similar. I am curious, though, I thought the Gathering stat only affects the rate that the remainder guage goes down, does it affect your strike accuracy as well? Because of this assumption, I use the Linen Bottom for Perception +7 instead of Raptorskin Culottes.

I don't have an exact explanation, but I think of gathering in a different way (same results, just makes more sense in my head). I think of gathering as a raw attack value vs the hit points of an item. Until/if you reach a certain +gathering, you simply cannot successfully gather an item. (This is mostly in reference to rare items). As this "attack" value goes up, it will take less successful hits to gather an item. Strike accuracy, as I outline above, is VIT.

Originally Posted by Pyree

As far as Output goes, you can afford to drop some without any effect (at Lv.50). I don't know the exact amount that you need, but I know that 115 is enough for 8 gathers from grade 5, and 107 is too little. With this in mind, you can swap out the Felt Work Gloves for Cotton Work Gloves to gain Perception +4.

So that puts the number for 8 hits/node between 111 and 115 then, cool. Switching the gloves is a pretty good idea. I'd be giving up a little bit of VIT for +perception, and also a STR materia (for when I reuse equipment on BOT), but overall a good choice. This will give me a way to test a higher perception number in relation to how often you get HQs.

**Raldo** · 2011-12-31 12:11

Originally Posted by miokomioko

Everything else for gathering is clearly accounted for and I don't think it's a stretch at all to translate "determining the proper angle for an item during the approach phase" as the initial strike angle and the item that results.

I'm almost positive this was translated properly because it says 'during the approach phase'. During the second part of the mini-game, the window that says Chop/Strike/Jig and Cancel says 'approach' at the top. This would mean that all they meant was that if your gathering stat was too low, the target to chop/strike/jig at would be in a random location, and this is exactly what the gathering stat does. It could also affect whether or not you hit what you were meaning to during the aim phase, but I've never inferred that from any dev notes.

I am under the assumption that nothing affects your ability to target certain things over others during the 'aim phase' (phase 1 of minigame). You could probably test this fairly easily by going to a Grade 1 site and seeing how often you hit something when you aim for its sweet spot. By going to Grade 1, you can be assured that your stats are far far over the expected values.

You guys should be more clear about what phase you're referring to when you say stuff like aim, target, strike, etc. I had some difficulty trying to figure out what you were referring to since those words are vague and could easily apply to either phase.

**miokomioko** · 2011-12-31 12:17

Are you talking about the exposed ore/notch/depth selection as the "first" part of the game? Because I'm not. I'm talking about the very first chop/strike/jig you make after you choose the ore/notch/depth as that affects what you find.

**Raldo** · 2011-12-31 12:24

First part of minigame: 'Aim phase' or 'Phase 1'
Second part of minigame: 'Approach phase' or 'Phase 2'

I'm under the impression that Niiro was asking whether or not any stat affects your ability to hit the item you were aiming for during the Aim phase.

**Jamison** · 2011-12-31 12:54

Originally Posted by miokomioko

Are you talking about the exposed ore/notch/depth selection as the "first" part of the game? Because I'm not. I'm talking about the very first chop/strike/jig you make after you choose the ore/notch/depth as that affects what you find.

What Raldo said. I've been calling "aim" part 1 and "approach" (force/angle/movement) part 2. To my knowledge and belief, no stat helps your AIM. There are abilities, however, that do.

**Raldo** · 2011-12-31 12:57

And one ability that makes your aim worse! Why did they even...

**miokomioko** · 2011-12-31 13:11

I don't even consider the ore/notch/depth "aiming" nor part of the minigame at all since you should easily know where it should be 100% of the time if you're after any specific item.

However, you have control over the general concentration of items via the ore/notch/depth gauge... but your actual initial strike/chop/jig angle can further affect what item you gather. Which is the "proper force/angle/rod movement" which is boosted by VIT/STR/DEX appropriately.

**Raldo** · 2011-12-31 13:26

What the what? Your initial strike/chop/jig has no effect on what item you gather, the item has already been decided once you enter the approach phase. How close you are to the strike/chop/jig target might affect the quality/quantity, I suppose...

Am I misunderstanding what you're trying to say?

**Jamison** · 2011-12-31 13:47

It's occurs to me that "StirkeChopJig" would be a great username.

**Niiro** · 2011-12-31 14:06

Originally Posted by miokomioko

but your actual initial strike/chop/jig angle can further affect what item you gather.

This is where you're confusing me, once you choose a spot and the remainder gauge appears the item is already determined. Your swings don't change anything about that.

If I'm mining at iron lake and the remainder gauge is initially ~50% full I know it's a cobalt ore, it's not going to change depending on where I strike. I'm either going to hit the right spot (near the edge of the circle) or not.

~66% it's going to be iron (just outside the circle)
~75% it's brimstone (just inside the circle)
~25% it's a gemstone (right at the center)
etc.

(this is all obviously describing how it works when gathering at nodes well within your level range, if I was R27 gathering at grade 5s the remainder gauges/sweet spots would be all over the place)

Thread: Miner Class Discussion Thread

Thread Tools

Latest Threads

Up & Coming Threads

Hottest Threads