Miner Class Discussion Thread

**Seravi Edalborez** · 2012-01-14 17:12

I'm doubting hidden effects, if only because items that previously had them (Garlond Goggles, Onion Helm) are not hidden anymore. Main "effect" is just having those 2 +10 attributes and a little perception bump over next best tool. Could outdo/match with a triple melded tool I guess.

**miokomioko** · 2012-01-14 21:31

Yeah, I don't really expect anything special to happen at all... as nothing in the game really has "hidden" effects. Not to say it wouldn't be nice if it had something like +1 to maximum simultaneous yield quantity. Regardless, the stats are solid and it's shiny.

Close enough.

**Jamison** · 2012-01-20 12:54

Did some pretty extensive testing of HQ rates at different levels of perception (from 106 to 133, around a 20-25% difference) and came up with some fairly disappointing results. I've logged over 3000 gathers.

The rate of HQ (with no master abilities active) never varies more than about 1%. In some of my data runs of 400 each, sometimes a perception of 106 actually yielded more HQ than a perception of 133. I believe I have more than enough data to be statistically significant, there's just not enough range in SE's equations to show anything worthwhile. The overall (non-master) HQ average is right about 10% -- possibly a cap, more on that later.

The rate of HQ with a master ability active does show a little bit of spread. Perception of 133 gave 32.34% while perception of 106 only gave 28.47%. More data would nail down these numbers a little bit further, but I'm fairly confident I have enough to say it is statistically significant. A master ability will be active around 17.59% of the time, which greatly mitigates the impact this has on the overall HQ rate.

The other thing I tested was if having more than 1 ability equipped makes abilities trigger more frequently. I don't yet have a good answer. So far my belief is that the difference between 1 and 3 abilities (i.e. Master of...) may be slight (if it exists at all), but not all that important. You're looking at an ability triggering on about 37% of the nodes. (This assumes 8 hits per node, and doesn't account for if the ability triggers after the first hit or the next to last. Useful for only limited conclusions). I have one dataset with 10 junk abilities loaded, and an activation rate of 48.5%, but I need to run that test multiple times to see if that was an anomaly or if there's actually something to it. Abilities seem to be *exceptionally* streaky, sometimes activating on 9 of 10 nodes, sometimes going 10-12 nodes without activating at all. So, nothing good on that front, yet.

Conclusions:
- The stat, or the formula, may be broken
- 10% may be a cap on HQ rates
- It's possible it takes hitting a specific perception number to jump to the next tier
- There may be a cap on perception
- I can run some tests with even lower numbers, and maybe higher if I get lucky with a double-meld
- For the moment, stacking on a lot of +perception seems nearly pointless

**Niiro** · 2012-01-20 13:38

Out of curiosity did you happen to keep record of what the items gathered were throughout all this?

For example if you were using G5 LL nodes for testing, was the ratio of item types and HQs gathered in proportion?

ie. did you get the same ratio of NQ:HQ for both iron and cobalt and did the ratio of overall iron:cobalt differ with varying perception

**Raldo** · 2012-01-20 16:43

I assume this is all in Grade 5?

Old topic, but I think the Hermes Shoes' effect is still hidden.

**Rocl** · 2012-01-20 16:51

Originally Posted by Raldo

Old topic, but I think the Hermes Shoes' effect is still hidden.

Nope. Listed as "Temporarily increases movement speed."

**CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon** · 2012-01-20 18:38

Was about to upgrade my perception on my gear but forget that now. They really need to go over this stuff again and make some changes. Would be really awesome if they had a stat just for helping target what you're aiming for, especially since all the decent ore is now x1 only. I seriously can't stand mining when it takes 2 hours to get a stack of cobalt that sells for 350k when I could just get 2.5 stacks of walnut logs in an hour and sell that for 500k. Kings yield is also basically worthless now with all the x1 stuff as well. The least they could do is redo that to allow you to gather 2-3x ore when that's active.

**Jamison** · 2012-01-20 18:49

Yeah, this is all G5. Actually all Iron Lake. I wanted to remove as many potential variables as possible, which is why it's all there, and always targeting cobalt ore. I have a bunch of data from Halalati that support this, but didn't include it in this set of numbers.

I didn't track specific item HQ rates. While I'm quite interested in following up on that, it was a bit too much bookkeeping, and I believe one of the parsers was going to include some gathering functionality in the future -- figured I'd wait for that and save myself some headache. I'll say, however, that I'm of the opinion that the level of the item does have some impact on HQ rates... but that's strictly from observation.

**Jamison** · 2012-01-21 17:28

Really want a kick in the pants? Here are two more conclusions:

Perception 88 (this is only the tool and a belt) - HQ rate of 9.74%, *exactly* in line (10% +/- 1%) of every other test I've done. (Other common perception tests were done often at 106 and 133.)

I was also testing the proc rate of 10 junk abilities, so I can't say how such a low perception fares when a "Master of" ability is active. But that leads to the other interesting thing, unless I got extremely unlucky with my numbers, there is a worthwhile increase in activation rate by having multiple abilities equipped. I've run each test twice, and the numbers appear to be confirmed.

Abilities Equipped - % of Nodes that triggered - % of total time spent under the ability

1 - 37.04% - 17.59%
3 - 37.50% - 19.01%
10 - 51.22% - 28.54%

The final column being the most accurate representation of just how long an ability is active. This is mixed in its helpfulness, however, because the difference between 1 and 3 is very slight. And there's not really an occasion where there 10 abilities that are useful to have equipped at once -- usually you are picking just a couple of things you want to trigger the most often and go with that.

Edit:

[I'd like to note that every set of numbers I've tested on have been done twice, non-consecutively. Numbers presented are the average of the two runs. I estimate the margin of error in any number I've presented to be around +/- 2%. I'm confident all numbers presented are within range of what they are supposed to be, but further testing could push any result up or down a little bit.]

**Pyree** · 2012-01-21 18:34

Maybe perception just does something different than what we thought it did. Did you check to see if it affected quantity of items you gather? Or possibly it affects the chance of mining rarer materials, like raw gemstones?

**miokomioko** · 2012-01-21 19:04

It's not that we thought it controlled HQ rates, it's that they specifically stated it.

**Pyree** · 2012-01-21 20:43

I know that. But it could've been a poor translation. That's why I asked.

**Jamison** · 2012-01-21 23:31

I edited the first post fairly heavily, it does include current information about stats and other things.

**Raldo** · 2012-01-22 01:37

What the fuckkkkkkkkkkkkk

Here's a Luminary. LOLOLOLOLOLOL ITS NOT ACTUALLY DOING YOU ANY GOOD BECAUSE YOUR STATS ARE ALREADY CAPPED!

I'm still going to try to get mine. It's all about the e-peen.

**jwang** · 2012-02-02 12:05

So I saw that Piety raises the chances of a gathering ability of activating. Does anyone have numbers on how effective this is? How would it stack up against the other stats for gathering, both a class's main stats (STR/INT, VIT/MND, DEX/PIE) and general gathering stats (Gathering, Perception, Output)?

**Raldo** · 2012-02-02 12:32

Originally Posted by jwang

So I saw that Piety raises the chances of a gathering ability of activating.

I'm not necessarily doubting that this is the case, but... where did you hear this?

**jwang** · 2012-02-02 14:02

I went back and took another look, and turns out it's for Disciples of Hand, and is the same across the board for all stats. False alarm! Nothing to see here, move along...

**Niiro** · 2012-02-02 15:58

That said, most gathering abilities are worthless anyway.

I don't even equip them as the time the activation animation takes isn't worth whatever benefit they might give (especially since they love to trigger when you only have 1-2 gathers left at a node).

The only exception being Fingerprints if you're actually after catalysts.

**Jamison** · 2012-02-02 16:10

I disagree. The Master abilities shoot your rate of getting an HQ item up by a good 20%, and Truth of Mountains (now that it's working again) gives you a huge boost to finding your targeted item (the rarer the item, the better the ability works).

Certainly these aren't dramatic enough to, say, double your output... but it's well worth getting set up for. If you are going to spend the time gathering anyways, might as well get everything out of it that you can.

That being said, I'd love to track down a way to make abilities proc more often, but I haven't come across anything yet. (Short of equipping more abilities, which dilutes the specific ability(ies) you want to activate.)

**Raldo** · 2012-02-02 16:12

In the process of getting my luminary, I've noticed that they proc far more often at lower grades, so something affects it. I have a feeling it's just a level check though.

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