Miner Class Discussion Thread

[Jamison]

I've been reading back through this thread but can't find an answer. Did we ever nail down the exact output needed for 8 hits/node? I know we narrowed it down to between 111 and 115.

[Raldo]

Yep, 114. A couple pages back.

Okay folks! I don't think anyone ever gave us an exact number about the output thing, so in celebration of hitting 50 BTN today, I took the time to determine the exact amount of output needed to get 8 swings on Grade 5.

The amount of output needed is... *drumroll*
114
That exact number is a little strange, as I expected it to be a mulitple of 10, or at very least, 5. I did indeed test 113 output and got only 7 swings.

Please note that the above number was only tested for Botany (both mainhand and offhand) in Treespeak. Yes, I did take into account the fact that mainhand and offhand tools have different output values, and I came up with the same number for them both.

Going to see if I can also find the threshold between 6 and 7 swings.
Data points... editing as I go...
Output 97 - 7 Attempts
Output 87 - 7 Attempts
Output 76 - 7 Attempts ... going to have to test with only my offhand at this point. Mainhand has 82 output.
Output 62 - 6 Attempts ... naked except my tools. Now to try to get back to 7 attempts...
Output 67 - 6 Attempts
Output 71 - 7 Attempts
Output 68 - 6 Attempts ... sorry, this is as good as I can do with what gear I have on me.

I also posted that on the OF. Some dude claimed to only get 7 attempts at +114, but I think he was just mistaken. I didn't think it was worth arguing with him.

It likely doesn't matter, but my testing was performed on Botanist, both mainhand and offhand tested, in Treespeak, a few days before patch 1.21.

[Jamison]

Thanks a bunch! I knew I had glanced at it at one point, but couldn't find it (right in front of me, no less). I'm close to being able to swap out a couple pieces of gear for more perception but might be about 2 output short.

[Jamison]

Had some free time at work today so I put together a spreadsheet [LINK] that lists all the gear options for all the slots. I figured some folks might like doing the math to figure out how best to hit the stats they want. I listed both the best-in-slot-options and also the most commonly available items.

While this was all filtered for miner, 98% should apply to all DoL. I only remember coming across one waist piece that BOT could use that MIN could not. Also at the moment I only have the rings from Ul'dah's GC listed, but not the other two. I'm going to tweak this for some time to come.

Any suggestions on what would make it better?

[Raldo]

Disregard. I missed what I was looking for, but I see it now.

Editing as I think of things...

Militia Harness : Body : Gathering+36

[Jamison]

Ok, got it updated a bit. If anyone cares, you can copy the sheet into your own Google Docs spreadsheet (or download it) and write in the values on the right side. They will total automatically at the top. I have a second sheet where I'm doing that for myself.

I found a way to be slightly more efficient with output, with the small gain of 4 perception. I made this more for the future so when new gear comes out it will be easier to figure out good combinations.

[Raldo]

If you want other people to use it, I'd add the other GC rings.

[Aratharn]

Thanks for making that. I've been kickin the idea of optimizing my DoL gear the last few days and this made it easier!

[Aratharn]

Has there been any testing on how much gathering is needed to one-shot nodes at 50? I'm sitting with 113 gathering, 115 output, and 146 perception (before food) and still have the occasional two-shots mining darksteel.

[Raldo]

It varies per item, how close you are to the strike sweet spot (or whatever it's called -- 2nd phase of the minigame), and possibly somewhat randomly. Like you, I have an item here or there that takes two hits (and my gathering is in the 120s). You can push on more gathering if you want, but I think you're fine.

[Niiro]

I generally just ignore gathering, most items are 1-shotted at 50 regardless, I think I only have 80-something gathering on MIN.

With that the only things that take more than 1 hit are the high level mats like DS and gold which doesn't bother me terribly if it means more perception in other places.

I agree there's an accuracy and/or random factor because maybe 1/10 times it'll take 2 hits for something like electrum for no perceivable reason.

edit: ha, "perceivable" reason, accidental pun

[shepardG]

So, my overall goal before 2.0 hits is to have atleast 1 DOL ,1 DOH, and 3 DOW, 1 DOM at cap. I'm 32 bsm, 35gld yadda yadda , but my mining (chosen to compliment bsm) is only level 12 :/. I started running the tier 2 loop in the black shroud but man it's slow. I've got 99leves saved up and I'm just wondering if spamming DOL levees would be the fastest way to level? Also would output be my main stat for leveling? I assume output would let me get more swings per node= more exp gained? Also when should I move from tier 2 nodes? Level 15? And I'm guessing I'll just use the disciplesoftheland website to find the best tier 3-5 spot?

Sorry for the wall, I understand the convo has been more toward end level stuff.

Also are catalysts good money makers?

[Raldo]

1) For DoL, is it faster to level with leves rather than just grinding?
I can't speak for the super-low level ones, but yes, it's generally faster to use leves (beyond level 25 at least), assuming you're teleporting and/or suiciding to get to town/camp in order to minimize the time wasted walking there. That said, if Emerald Moss for MIN is anything like Emerald Moss for BTN, it sucks to grind there because of how spread out the points are (unless you get lucky). The same applies to Tranquil. I can't speak for MIN though; just throwing out that warning.

2) Is output the best stat to stack while leveling?
This one is a two-part answer.
• During leves? No. Leves, as far as I can recall, have a constant amount of gathers regardless of your output value.
• Normal grinding? Yes, up to a point. Don't add a bunch of output if it's not going to actually give you any additional attempts at a gathering point. If you have 6 attempts, put on 40 output, and still have 6 attempts, then all that added output isn't doing you any good at all. More swings per node is indeed more exp gained, yes. Also, 8 gathers per point is the maximum, so don't push on more output if you've reached that.

If you are targetting nodes well above your level (what is 'well above'? I don't know.), then don't neglect your VIT. If your level and/or VIT are high enough for a node, the strike (phase 2 of the minigame) will be in a constant location. At level cap, the items are always in a constant location, so I don't think anyone knows the appropriate amount of level/VIT needed per grade. (Note: VIT only applies to miner, the other two DoLs use STR or DEX) If I didn't explain that clear enough, feel free to ignore or ask me (or whoever answers first) to go into more detail.

3) When is it best to move onto the next grade?
I usually move onto the next grade of leves at x5 (15, 25, etc.) because that's when a new tier of leves opens up, but you don't actually get the mainhand node detection abilities until x8 (18, 28, etc.), so if you're doing straight grinding, I would wait until x8 (or whenever the exp is like "ugh, why am I still here, this exp sucks").

4) Is disciplesoftheland a good place to find nodes?
Maybe? Personally, I hate using their maps, and I'm a frequent visitor of that site. Listing every node everywhere, while helpful in figuring out the general area you'll be in, doesn't really help you find the exact points very much. It is helpful to compare zones to see which ones are more packed together when deciding which zone to visit, I guess. Mooglebox has a list of all the items you can get in a zone and where to strike for them (assuming you have enough level/VIT).

I keep a spreadsheet for Botany that lists details about each zone and every item. If you were going to do BTN, I would suggest that as a resource, but it sounds like you're set on MIN. In my not-so-humble opinion, I think someone should cook up one o' those for FSH/MIN, but I've yet to see one.

5) Are catalysts good money makers?
For BTN/MIN, they're decent; some are better than others. Of course, your server's economy may vary, and I haven't looked at catalyst prices in well over a month. I always keep Fingerprints of the Gods equipped, but you might want to check your server's going price before heading out to a zone that has a catalyst to see if they're worth targetting. For FSH, they're good. FSH tend to just sit in one place and fish, but the catalysts can only be obtained at Schools of Fish, so there aren't as many FSH catalysts in the economy. The downside for FSH is, of course, you have to run around instead of just staying in one place.

Pushing your Aim to +5 while HoG is active will always get you a catalyst, so if you just want some catalysts but not a ton, just keep gathering at whatever aim level and you'll end up with some, but not a shitload. If you're a FSH, the above statement applies at -5 rather than +5.

[shepardG]

Thanks Raldo looking forward to efficiently grinding now lol, gonna check ul'dah t2's tonight might be easier than the lake near emerald moss

[Jamison]

For (non-leve) grinding, Thanalan is the universally worst choice for a zone to go to. Nodes are just too far away from each other, so unless you are trying to target a specific item it's no good. Nophica's Wells is the only one I recall being semi-decent.

The Limsa zones are usually the most efficient. In some cases Black Shroud zones are OK, sometimes as good as Limsa, but never really better. The only Limsa zone that might be a little trouble while leveling up is Cederwood... there will be some aggro that can block off nodes (slowing you down) and occasionally an awkwardly placed underground node can spawn there too.

But if you have leves, they are massive amounts of XP. At some ranks, a set of 2 leves can net you over 20k XP, I've topped over 40k with Sweat of Brow and a GC scroll (before rested XP existed, too). If you aren't too concerned about building up a stock of lower-level gathered items, and you don't need leves for any other job, it's a rather big waste not to do the majority of your leveling up with leves.

[neptunet]

Interesting notion here.. does HQ Discovery Rate plus function like Master of Timber or like Stroke of Luck? Or maybe something else entirely?

[Jamison]

Interesting notion here.. does HQ Discovery Rate plus function like Master of Timber or like Stroke of Luck? Or maybe something else entirely?

Near as I can tell, it's something else entirely. 'Master of' abilities seem to remove the 10% perception cap and get you potentially closer to 40%. (Testing indicates this but it's not exactly "proven"). dLVL must come in to play somewhere because you don't see such specific results on darksteel or kidney ore. HQ Discovery Rate seems to be a bonus applied after all other calculations are done giving a raw percentage increase to whatever you would have had without it.

[Raldo]

I'm of the mind that the HQ Discovery Rate is just a +1% HQ find chance that can exceed the Perception cap. Right now if perception caps at a 10% HQ rate, adding a flat 1% to that gets you 11%, or adding 10% to your HQ rate (10% of 10%) also gets you to 11%, so I don't know how anyone could even guess one way or the other.

[GavinBandura]

Are you going with perception 10% cap from data, or was it stated? If the former, what are people saying is the amount of perception needed to hit that? I am currently at/just over 180 maintaining 8 output.

[Raldo]

The 10% cap is from data, though the only data I'm aware of is Jamison's (see here). There might've been more testing done later and/or by other people.

Anyway, in the testing I linked, Jamison was getting ~10% HQ rate at a mere 133 perception, so I think you're fine.