What's the relationship between the Democratic Party and its liberal base?

[Cadsuane]

You use too many non-sequiturs when you're playing devil's advocate, Kuya.

[Kuya]

What do you mean?

[notorious bum]

Stereotyping stereotypical politicians is stereotyping.

Also, Bolivia must be the capitol of idealogues right now.

[Cadsuane]

Just, you know, stuff like "if... then..." statements where the conclusion isn't at all supported by the premise just cited. It's too obvious that you don't believe what you're saying, especially when you lay it out like that all organized. You've gotta fill in those cracks with some sophistry or fuzzy thinking or maddening little fallacies that are hard to pick out.

Now that I think about it, when you aren't stupid or insane, it really takes alot of effort to argue poorly, even when you're doing it on purpose. I couldn't parody Leif if I tried, for example. He was just too creative.

Edit: then again your ploy worked but these guys are more confused and wary than enraged.

[Kuya]

So Cads, are you saying that you disagree that the Democratic party does try to implement some form of liberal agenda, and that the liberal base asks too much of a political party trying to tip toe around entrenched interests and a very savvy right wing party?

[Plow]

It's not just the republicans that are smart enough to cater to the retards like rhinox right up until they've got their vote.

[Plow]

definitely didn't even hit that twice just let it sit in the lag after I pressed it once >.>

[Rhinox]

tell me more about what a liberal lion Bill clinton was Plow. I get so hard when you describe his conservative policies and add your revisionist spin to it.

[Plow]

tell me more about what a liberal lion Bill clinton was Plow. I get so hard when you describe his conservative policies and add your revisionist spin to it.

[Masenko]

There's only one political party in the US... money.

[Cadsuane]

So Cads, are you saying that you disagree that the Democratic party does try to implement some form of liberal agenda, and that the liberal base asks too much of a political party trying to tip toe around entrenched interests and a very savvy right wing party?

Come to think of it, no. That's probably essentially true.

[Kuya]

It's certainly the most reasonable way to look at it. Better than the alternative psychological view that the Democrats are all spineless or the corporate conspiracist view that the Democrats are all in the pockets of big business.

[Rhinox]

lol

[Cadsuane]

It's certainly the most reasonable way to look at it. Better than the alternative psychological view that the Democrats are all spineless or the corporate conspiracist view that the Democrats are all in the pockets of big business.

No, those are probably true to some extent too.

[archibaldcrane]

The problem isn't that Obama waters down his reforms, it's how he does it. It's painfully clear, for example, that the stimulus should've been twice the size. But that wouldn't have passed. He didn't present his huge reform, let Rs "do nothing", then chop it down to size saying the whole time "this isn't enough because of republicans who hate this country" and then when unemployment is still 9.7% lay it at their feet.

He pre-trims his bills as passable, owns them, and then takes the fall when they aren't enough. It's absolutely terrible politics.

Obama is plain and simple a bad politician, and now he's taking heat from his liberal base for the same shit. Instead of rallying them around how terrible Rs are, they're blaming him for not even trying to pass truly progressive reform because he shoots it in the foot from the get-go. He's a really strange optimistic defeatist.

[notorious bum]

The conspiracy theory bullshit card about lobbyist money and paid-for politicians is an extinct way of rebuttal. Its now fairly mainstream to believe legislation gets passed in favor of the highest buyer, although few actually care enough to research this and simply play into the hands of Tea Party manipulation, for example.

Your shitty legislation just got worse with even higher concentrations of bought politicians through unadulterated corporate campaign pimping. Bribing through elections was nothing new, but now its almost a guaranteed return on investment without the wider spread needed previously.

Oh and everyone really misses the biggest blow to our fake democracy = judicial elections. Like it couldn't get any worse with nobody voting and seats going to the candidate with the best advertisement on TV lol Can't wait to see all the de-reg and David v Goliath cases thrown out as new judges get rotated.

[Yugl]

He pre-trims his bills as passable, owns them, and then takes the fall when they aren't enough. It's absolutely terrible politics.

Yet, it makes him more respectable in my opinion.

[archibaldcrane]

Yet, it makes him more respectable in my opinion.

It's just dumb. He shouldn't be taking the fall for bills that are watered down because of the "just say no" Republicans. It wastes Obama's political capital because he is constantly on the losing end of the narrative, which means he keeps having to water shit down.

[Rhinox]

Yet, it makes him more respectable in my opinion.

Cool. Maybe theres an opening in your company for him come 2012.

[Yugl]

It's just dumb. He shouldn't be taking the fall for bills that are watered down because of the "just say no" Republicans. It wastes Obama's political capital because he is constantly on the losing end of the narrative, which means he keeps having to water shit down.

It's self-defeating, but we can still say it makes him more honorable.

Cool. Maybe theres an opening in your company for him come 2012.

Oh wait, let me guess. You're one of those dumbasses who thinks that me respecting someone's character suddenly means I think they're producing the best outcome possible right?