2010-2011 NBA Season Thread

[Kaslo]

Honestly thinking about making discussion about the 'MVP' award a bannable offense until the season's over. My god I'm sick of it. They should just split the trophy in five, and pass it out so they'll get a participation trophy.

Hey now, I posted about the MIP. (ducks)

[Correction]

The trophies should mean something, like when baseball gave Jeter his 5th gold glove.

[Akiyama]

The trophies should mean something, like when baseball gave Jeter his 5th gold glove.

lol'd. hey, he can still jump throw to first. he's a good SS!

[Dimmauk]

You can prevent people from scoring 80 and still lose see;celtics


And Dimmy its funny how fast the Spurs went from best team in the league to limping in the playoffs.

Maybe Tim Duncan should be MVP



Point God

Spurs are just coasting bro!

Real MVPs win Championships.

[GRT]

Haha, I see BG fears no wrath from ESPN The Magazine.

[Correction]

oh god


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...15735.htmlpage

[kisada]

Honestly thinking about making discussion about the 'MVP' award a bannable offense until the season's over. My god I'm sick of it. They should just split the trophy in five, and pass it out so they'll get a participation trophy.

dear god, can we please?

[Rhinox]

Stuff

Few things. This is my problem with the number geeks specifically John hollinger and John Schuhzman. They pretty much only look at Possessions and Quarters which can often not tell the whole story. He repeatedly that he didn't cherry pick data but he did(more on that later). Someone can go 18 for 18 from the field thru 3 quarters and in the forth go 0 for 8 in the fourth and lose your team the game but end up 18 for 26 including 6-8 from 3 now extrapolate that thru 82 games you have an MVP with god like numbers on a Losing team.

Another thing that bug the fuck out of me in that article is he tries to insinuate that the offence and defense gets better when he is out of the game. REALLY? MIGHT IT HAVE ANYTHING TO THAT WHEN HE IS OFF THE COURT THE OPPOSING TEAMS BACKUPS IS IN THE GAME?

theres a saying that goes figures lie and liars figure. I think it applies pretty good here. John Hollinger is a numbers cruncher that is it.

One important statistic he did manage to leave out is the huge gap between Point God's closer numbers as oppose to Dwight howards

The fact of the matter is that the Bulls are better with Rose. And let's not just toss out the old, "well he gets more help from his teammates" argument without putting it to the test, either. Nor is that important. What matters is who helps his teammates more.

Rose commands tremendous attention when he has the ball. He commands double and triple teams. This leads defenders away from the basket and towards him. That's not just theory, it's fact.

When Derrick Rose is on the court the team's offensive rebounding percentage goes up 2.3 percent. That's not just because he's a better rebounder, it's because other teams are emptying out the lane. In fact, 32 percent of the Bulls missed field goals are recovered by the Bulls.

That's nearly one third. It's also why his own missed field goal attempts are not as much of a concern. When one of every six missed field goals goes back in the basket anyway, efficiency matters less. Don't think it doesn't. The Bulls are 38-13 (.745) when they have at least 10 offensive rebounds.

Furthermore, when Derrick Rose is on the court, in spite of the fact that all four other starters have a higher effective field goal percentage than he does, the overall FG percentage is 4.5 percent higher just by his being on the court.


When you factor in his usage rate, and take his shots out of the equation, that means that his teammates make roughly the equivalent of 52 percent of their shots when he's on the court and 46.5 percent when he's off the court if you adjust for threes. Effectively, that means a difference of about four more baskets a game, just by Rose being on the court.

There's an offensive system designed around Derrick Roses' talents and his ability to drive to the rim. His ability with the ball commands so much attention that it frees up his teammates. He can beat you scoring or passing.

When he has less than eight assists, but more than 20 points, the Bulls are 28-10 (.736). When he scores less than 20 but has more than eight assists, they are 8-4 (.667). When he has more than 20 points and more than eight assists, they are 20-7 (.741). Even on those rare occasions where he does neither, they are 6-3.

He'll beat you with his scoring and passing, he'll beat you with one or the other, and if he has to, he'll find a way to beat you with neither because he make his teammates better.

When people argue that Howard affects every possession while he's on the court, I doubt they consider that. In fact I don't think they consider much on how to explain their position. Certainly, when Howard has the ball he's a monster. On defense he's a monster.

However, there's a system designed around Howard, too. Stan Van Gundy's system is for the Magic shooters to knock down threes, tons of them, to stretch the court and enable Howard to be under the basket in one-on-one defense.


When it works, it works great. The Magic are 38-15 (.716) when they make at least eight threes. When they make fewer than that they are 16-13 (.551). When the Magic lose Howard scores 24.1; when they win he scores 22.8.

If we're trying to see what has the bigger impact on the Magic, it's not Howard that makes them go, it's the perimeter shooters. If you're going to talk about numbers and "winning," then you have to consider these numbers.

These numbers show that Rose makes his teammates better and that's why they win. Howard needs his teammates to play better in order to win.

Now of course Rose has a big edge on Howard in that he's a ball handler and that's a fair argument. Of course there's also inherit advantages to Howard's position and some of the other numbers that go along with that.

There's another number though that's shockingly compelling. At 82games.com they keep track of "clutch time" stats. They consider "clutch time" as the last five minutes of the game or overtime, with the score within five points. As of March 5, in 92 minutes of clutch time play, Dwight Howard had attempted 29 field goals.

By comparison, in 123 minutes of clutch time play, Derrick Rose had attempted 112 field goals. That's before the incredible month of March Rose has had where he's scored 34 points in 21 clutch time minutes.

Whose hands would you rather have the ball in with the game on the line?

Derrick Rose
84.9%
Dwight Howard
15.1%
Total votes: 278
From the line Rose was 36 of 41 (87 percent). Dwight Howard was 24 of 36 (67 percent). Derrick Rose had scored 43.2 points per 48 minutes of clutch time, Howard 25.0. As of right now the games since then have Rose over 48 points per 48 minutes.

Rose's performances have more than a little to do with the Bulls outscoring their opponents by 201 points in the fourth quarter this season, more than double the margin of any other team.

So this brings home the real reason that Rose deserves it over Howard, and on this Guitierrez is right: You have to look at the numbers and winning. The difference between Howard and Rose is that Rose's numbers have more to do with Chicago winning.

When the game is on the line you want the ball in Derrick Roses' hands and you don't want it in Howard's hands.

The other teams' strategy is to foul Howard. It hurts the Magic for him to touch the ball when the game is on the line. That's why Howard has more free throws than field goal attempts even though he's .722 from the field.

Derrick Rose is going to win games. He has won games. Since the loss at Atlanta, Rose has scored or assisted on 44 of the Bulls 52 clutch time points. Of the eight points he didn't contribute directly to, four were on two put backs. In the only game they lost, Rose fouled out after scoring nine points in the last five minutes of the fourth quarter and four in overtime. The Bulls won the other five.

And that's the difference between them and why Rose is the MVP and Howard is not. When the game is on the line, you should want the ball in your MVP's hands, not out of it. You're MVP shouldn't complain about the players around not being better, he should make them better.

Derrick Rose does these things; Howard does not.

That's the real reason he's the MVP and the flavor of the month

Honestly thinking about making discussion about the 'MVP' award a bannable offense until the season's over. My god I'm sick of it. They should just split the trophy in five, and pass it out so they'll get a participation trophy.

Im done.

Spurs are just coasting bro!

Real MVPs win Championships.

I'll remember that when the spurs are eliminated in the second round.


Truth be told I don't know who is gonna MVP. If the Lakers win out the rest of the season would I be dissapointed Point God didn't win it? yeah. Would I be mad about it? nah

I don't know how far my bulls will go but I'm happy with the ride we had all season. I'll be happy with my Humble Superstar.

[Rhinox]

Simple way to fix this would be to do it like they do it in the NFL. Have an MVP and OPOY being two separate awards so even Kevin love and others can get consideration.

[Moss]

Another thing that bug the fuck out of me in that article is he tries to insinuate that the offence and defense gets better when he is out of the game. REALLY? MIGHT IT HAVE ANYTHING TO THAT WHEN HE IS OFF THE COURT THE OPPOSING TEAMS BACKUPS IS IN THE GAME?

Except the same is true when other superstars are off the court.

The Heat are 10.49 points per 100 possessions worse without LeBron James this season; the Mavs, 16.68 points worse without Dirk Nowitzki; the Magic, 6.95 worse without Howard, and the Lakers, 6.20 worse without Bryant.

[Moss]

Another thing that bug the fuck out of me in that article is he tries to insinuate that the offence and defense gets better when he is out of the game. REALLY? MIGHT IT HAVE ANYTHING TO THAT WHEN HE IS OFF THE COURT THE OPPOSING TEAMS BACKUPS IS IN THE GAME?

Except the same is true when other superstars are off the court.

The Heat are 10.49 points per 100 possessions worse without LeBron James this season; the Mavs, 16.68 points worse without Dirk Nowitzki; the Magic, 6.95 worse without Howard, and the Lakers, 6.20 worse without Bryant.

[Rhinox]

hey Moss Say the hawks somehow managed to beat the Magic how would you beat the bulls?

[Moss]

I would try to keep the Point God shooting jumpers and out of the lane

[Rhinox]

I would try to keep the Point God shooting jumpers and out of the lane

So you would try to take Point God out of the game? But according to the stats Point God is pretty insignificant to why the bulls win why attack him?

[Rhinox]

Hey Dimmy your team is at full strength.

[Dimmauk]

Hey Dimmy your team is at full strength.

Spurs are just coasting bro!

Real MVPs win Championships.

Its been a great game, its nice to watch great teams play each other.

[Moss]

Because when he is on the floor, he often shooting or setting up a shot. See the high usage rate.

I was just pointing out your flawed logic when you said that when Rose is off the floor, the other team's 2nd unit is usually on the floor too, so that's why the Bulls still outscore opponents. This goes the same for the other players I quoted, yet their teams play at a deficit. You could say this is more a result of the Bulls team than an indictment on Rose, but I do think it hurts his MVP argument.

tl;dr: I think Dwight Howard has too great an impact for the Magic on both ends not to be MVP

[Rhinox]

Because when he is on the floor, he often shooting or setting up a shot. See the high usage rate.

I was just pointing out your flawed logic when you said that when Rose is off the floor, the other team's 2nd unit is usually on the floor too, so that's why the Bulls still outscore opponents. This goes the same for the other players I quoted, yet their teams play at a deficit. You could say this is more a result of the Bulls team than an indictment on Rose, but I do think it hurts his MVP argument.

tl;dr: I think Dwight Howard has too great an impact for the Magic on both ends not to be MVP

So because the bulls bench is better then the magic's bench howard gets the nod?

Exactly who are these top centers that Dwight matches up against on a daily basis? 39 year old Shaq? Josholford the out of position big men of the hawks? Point is he should be dominating his position because of style of play and no one strong enough to keep him in check. It's like rewarding someone for dunking on a midget. It's more of an indictment on the lack of talent of centers then a knock against Dwight

Only one that can come close really is Bynum.

[Rhinox]

Its been a great game, its nice to watch great teams play each other.

Coasting when they on the verge of losing home court? that actually be worst.

[Dimmauk]

So because the bulls bench is better then the magic's bench howard gets the nod?

Exactly who are these top centers that Dwight matches up against on a daily basis? 39 year old Shaq? Josholford the out of position big men of the hawks? Point is he should be dominating his position because of style of play and no one strong enough to keep him in check. It's like rewarding someone for dunking on a midget. It's more of an indictment on the lack of talent of centers then a knock against Dwight

Only one that can come close really is Bynum.

Howard's defense > Rose's offense
Howard's offense > Rose's defense

Howard is more dominating on both sides of the floor, so he has an impact on more possessions throughout the game. You just can't see it though your Rose colored glasses.

Congrats to the Celtics, Rondo was amazing tonight, and their bench beat the Spurs bench who played terrible.