2010-2011 NBA Season Thread

[Zoolander]

throughout the season I wondered why the Nets werent giving Favors any minutes...and now after watching him w/the Jazz, I'm only more confused. Dude can play some ball & the Nets were terrible, how the hell was he not playing lol.

[Heavencloud]

throughout the season I wondered why the Nets werent giving Favors any minutes...and now after watching him w/the Jazz, I'm only more confused. Dude can play some ball & the Nets were terrible, how the hell was he not playing lol.

Couple sick dunks, he seems to be really strong, definitely potential great post player. Guess lolBrooks wanted the minutes?

[Moss]

throughout the season I wondered why the Nets werent giving Favors any minutes...and now after watching him w/the Jazz, I'm only more confused. Dude can play some ball & the Nets were terrible, how the hell was he not playing lol.

you can't always rely on the eye test for a judgement like that. it is quite possible the coach is/was incompetent, but there are a ton of factors that go into PT

[kisada]

a lot of coaches are hesitant to play rookies heavy minutes until they show a commitment to learning the system, particularly defensive rotations. unless they're the obvious future of the team, they'll get reduced minutes because it's too conflicting when the coach tells the other players "play D or don't play at all." derrick rose and blake griffin are two prime examples of players who were/are awful defenders in their first years but got to play big minutes cause of everything else they were good at.

hard to say whether favors doesn't work hard enough in practice or not. avery johnson is notorious for being a disciplinarian so i can see why he'd be reticent to play favors. but tyrone corbin is a player's coach and if he can't get a lot of minutes with him i'd say it's just the rookie learning curve. i mean, all the jazz have really have at the 4/5 are AJ and milsap.

[Zoolander]

He played good minutes tonight & honestly looked like the best defender & best post player whenever he was on the court and got the ball in his hands down low (I was pretty much just watching him whenever he played since I was kinda curious). Obviously has shit to learn, especially moving to a new system & being so young, but seems like he will be alright.

[Rhinox]

Favors has potential no doubt he was giving the lakers fits. he has the same problem Dhoward does they both terrible free throw shooters.

[jmc]

By the way, we don't have a Celtics fan on here huh?

/

I just try to avoid the sports threads.

Last time I participated in a sports thread, my team ends up starting 0-6. (MLB thread, er... now) lol

[GRT]

Hey Rhinox, let me save you a troll post. Simmons just named Rose his MVP.

Although this part had me lol'ing for a bit

FATALLY FLAWED

10. Dallas Mavericks
If players were forced to argue their own MVP cases, here's what I would write for Dirk to say (add your own German hip-hop accent):

"Um, have you ever watched us? We were playing 3 on 5 offensively in crunch-time when Caron Butler was healthy. In every close game, we run every play for me. No, really. Watch us some time. According to 82games.com, I'm the league's best clutch scorer: in crunch-time, I make 49.5% of my field goals, get to the line more than anyone else and make 89 percent of my free throws. I have chunks of Kobe's crunch-time prowess in my stool. And that's playing with Tyson Chandler and Shawn Marion (who couldn't create shot for themselves if they were posting up Yi Jianlian's old chair from the 2007 Draft) and Jason Kidd, who's only been decomposing since the All-Star Break. When I got injured in December, we went 2-8 while I was out, then 1-2 as I eased my way back into shape. We're 50-15 when I'm healthy even though Jason Terry is my second-best teammate -- he'd be the fifth-best Bull, fifth-best Celtic, sixth-best Laker and the fifth-best Blazer (a team that we're playing in Round One).

"I thought for sure we'd make a deadline deal to help me. We didn't have much to trade because everyone on our team is between 2 and 12 years past his prime except Roddy Beaubois. Our front office decided Roddy was untradeable, which sounded good on paper when he was injured, but then he came back and started playing, and now it's just plain awkward. So far he's looked like either a poor man's Tony Parker or a homeless man's Tony Parker. The Dallas employee who decided Roddy was untradeable must have been the same guy who guaranteed those 1400 temporary seats would be done for Super Bowl XLV. To be honest, I have no idea how we ended up with a 3-seed. We're going to lose in Round 1 or Round 2. Crap."

[Dimmauk]

I read the dirk part with Cloris leachman's voice from beerfest. Does Rose lead the league in any stat categories?

[Rhinox]

Hey Rhinox, let me save you a troll post. Simmons just named Rose his MVP.

Although this part had me lol'ing for a bit

But you left out all the good stuff!

2. Chicago Bulls
... a team that's been practicing that secret all season. Guys like Luol Deng and Joakim Noah might not be able to sell tickets, but you can win titles with them because they don't care about anything other than doing what it takes to win. Someone like Brian Scalabrine might not matter historically, but he's one of the greatest, most supportive guys you could ever have on your bench. Someone like Thomas might seem like a journeyman center, but he'd fight anyone who messed with any of his teammates. Someone like Boozer might not be worth $70 million, but it's hard to find guys who can grind out 20-10's every night and not take it personally if they don't touch the ball in the final three minutes of a close games. Someone like Rose might not seem any more or less special statistically than the other MVP candidates, but when your best player buys into everything your coach is selling, plays hard for every minute of every game, doesn't care about his own numbers, stays humble, and does whatever it takes to win from night to night, how could he not be considered "valuable?"

To be honest, this is probably one of those years when there wasn't totally a most valuable player (like 2005 and 2007, actually). Sadly, we can't roll the trophy over like it's a skins match and make next year's award count for two. We have to hand it out. The case against Rose is twofold:

A. Chicago's MVP has been its tenacious defense (not Rose). That's fine except for the part that every true contender assumes the personality of its best player. Russell's Celtics won 11 of 13 titles because he cared about winning more than anyone ever ... until Jordan, whose teams won six titles because he cared about winning more than anyone other than Russell. Bird's Celtics teams assumed his personality; they were all terrified of letting him down. Magic's Lakers teams assumed his personality; carefree in those early years, then more and more hardcore as the years passed. Duncan's Spurs teams reflected him and his coach: cerebral, classy, competitive in the cleanest way. Kobe's best quality these past three years has been that he's gotten Gasol, Bynum and Odom (three guys who, mentally, could have gone either way) to care about competing as much as he does. This is what great players do.

So for anyone to say that Rose -- who's stuck in fifth gear for every minute of every game, to the point that Chicago's biggest concern might be that he doesn't have an extra gear for the playoffs -- doesn't directly affect Chicago's defense is insane. Have you ever been to a NBA practice? Earlier this year, I went to an Oklahoma City practice and was stunned to see Durant and Westbrook going full-speed through every drill like it was Game 7 of the playoffs. I asked Scotty Brooks about it afterwards: he smiled and said something like, "When your best players care that much, everything else falls into place." That's what happened in Chicago with Rose. He sets the tone day after day after day; everyone else eventually fell into place. When your best player cares that much, it's contagious.

B. Speaking of advanced metrics, if you're using them to make the case against Rose, I submit the following two lines:

Player A: 27.2 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 4.2 APG, 54% FG, 76% FT, 28.4 PER, 16.6 WS, 60% TS%, 1st-team All-Defense.

Player B: 29.2 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 3.8 APG, 48% FG, 81% FT, 26.3 PER, 17.1 WS, 55% TS%, 1st-team All-Defense.

Who was better? It's close, but you picked Player A, right? Well ... those were the combined numbers for Karl Malone and Michael Jordan during the 1997 and 1998 regular seasons. You just picked Malone. Thank you and please drive through.

Anyway, advanced metrics weaken Rose's MVP case but don't murder it. Unlike LeBron the past two years, he isn't a sure thing. That's fine. Just consider these other two points ...

• Rose carries his team's offense more than anyone else carries their team's offense. He's their only player who can create his own shot, and he's their only player who can create shots for others. Night after night after night, he walked onto the court knowing that Chicago's entire offense hinged on how he played. His usage rate (32.4%) and assist rate (39.4%) tells some of the story; in crunch-time per 48 minutes, he's averaged the second-most field goal attempts, the eighth-most free throw attempts and the ninth-highest assists (nobody else made the top-15 for all three categories, much less the top-10). The dude does everything for them offensively, a little like Iverson on the 2001 Sixers (the year he finished with the sixth-highest usage rate ever and Philly somehow made the Finals, anyway). In my opinion, when you're doing everything, you should get a little statistical slack. You might have to take one or two shots per half that you shouldn't take, just because nobody else will take them. In crunch-time, the degree of difficulty ratchets up because the other team knows it's up to you, and you alone. You have to account for these things. That's why I love basketball so much: it's objective and subjective.

• Rose keeping the Bulls in contention for three-plus months when Boozer and Noah missed significant time was the single most impressive thing I witnessed this season. Their quest for a No. 1 seed should have derailed in November, when Boozer missed a brutal seven-game Western road swing (including Dallas, San Antonio, Phoenix and Los Angeles) plus road games in Boston and Oklahoma City ... and yet, they emerged from a potential disaster at 9-6 (with Rose averaging a 28-8-5). Just when they were coming together, their defensive anchor (Noah) went down for two months ... Rose kept everything humming. (As a Celtics fan, I kept looking at the standings every morning thinking, "Jeez, they won't go away ... .") They finally had a full team when they were 35-14; they're 23-6 since. A one-seed. Phenomenal.

I will remember the 2010-11 season for LeBron and Wade, for Blake Griffin, for the dumb Celtics trade, and for how hard Derrick Rose played every night. He willed the Bulls to a No. 1 seed. Unfortunately, we don't have an advanced statistic to quantify that specific achievement -- just a primitive, overrated statistic called "wins." I guess we'll have to make due. Derrick Rose, you're my 2010-11 MVP.

Last note: On paper, the Bulls are the best team right now. They proved it Thursday night -- that was a final exam and they aced it. Just don't forget the lessons of the 1990 Bulls, 2000 Lakers, 2008 Celtics and every other team that looked great heading into April, then found out that winning in the playoffs was a slightly different animal. The energy is different. The crowds are louder. The media ten-tuples in size. The pressure can suffocate the weaker links on the team, and sometimes, even the best guys. The games come one after another, and if you get into the wrong groove, you can't get out of it. You get tight. You question who you are. You hit a couple of low points, then glance around wondering who might step up and not totally knowing if anyone will. The playoffs exacerbate every quality you have, good and bad. You just never know how a team will respond until they're responding. I believe in this Bulls team ... but it's the playoffs, and you just never know.

[Dimmauk]

If the bulls were number 2, who was number 1?

[Rhinox]

btw the Pundit Civil war just got hotter with analyst taking shots at other analysts hahahahaha


Some background John Hollinger was one the strong voices that came out and yelled at the top of the mountain that Point God didn't deserve to win. The funny part is even after big games Hollinger continued to voice his opposition and eventually turned ugly when he started taking shots at bulls fans. Yesterday was the straw that broke the camels back though after Point God put on a Clinic even hardcore critics like Skip Bayless came on board for the Rose MVP bandwagon but not Hollinger he doubled down on his stupidity after a fan asked him if he was ready to commit.

@ johnhollinger John Hollinger



Have him 6th, not 300th. He's really good. But MVP vibe is cuz Cs scored 81 and not 101. @chicagofan999 still think Rose shouldn't be MVP?

apparently the 5 in front of him included

Howard
James
Dirk
Wade
Kobe

So today Steve Aschburner wrote the final Race to the MVP where he declared the race over and took a shot at hollinger.

Resistance is futile -- and at this point, contrarian, self-indulgent and embarrassing. When a numbers fetishist claims that Rose's performance in 2010-11 ranks no higher than sixth place on a five-slot ballot, that person is imagining some other, non-existent award. Go buy a trophy -- say, a big bronze slide-rule -- slap a name on it and hand that out. Just don't call it the MVP.

[Rhinox]

If the bulls were number 2, who was number 1?

Lakers

[Dimmauk]

Rose won the award a long time ago. But, some people(me) like to LOL @ people (Rhinox) trying to justify him winning over players more deserving.

Congrats to Rose for being this year's American Idol of the NBA.

[Drex]

The only players I would consider over Rose this year are Dwight and Lebron, and with the way Chicago beating out Orlando and Miami, I don't see how you can call them more valuable.

Just wish it was over with so we could get on with the playoffs!

[Kaslo]

Hmmm George Carl wanting to play the Mavs in round one instead of Thunder. Do the Nuggets just lay it down tonight to the Thunder?

[Rhinox]

Rose won the award a long time ago. But, some people(me) like to LOL @ people (Rhinox) trying to justify him winning over players more deserving.

Congrats to Rose for being this year's American Idol of the NBA.

Rose having a historic season not just being the youngest. but this as well

A large part of the controversy surrounding the MVP run of Derrick Rose is that he doesn't have the numbers of an MVP.


In looking at the PERs and Win Shares and rates and ratios and formulas, the sheer volume of what he's done has gotten lost.


When you look at the totals of his season though, you see some surprisingly historic numbers which put him in the company of the greatest players in history.
In fact, in terms of total production, Rose is having arguably the best all around season by a point guard in NBA history.


First is the accomplishment of scoring 2,000 points and 600 assists in a single season. The feat has been accomplished a total 13 times, by five people. Oscar Robertson did it seven times, Tiny Archibald and John Havlicek twice each. LeBron James and Michael Jordan have each done it once.


Rose needs to only average 16.3 points per game and get four more total assists to become the sixth player to accomplish that feat.


If you factor in 300 rebounds, that list gets even smaller. Oscar Robertson's seven times still are on that list. Michael Jordan, LeBron James and John Havlicek are the only others to do that.


Derrick Rose would be the fifth player, and first point guard in history, to accomplish that feat.



Rose's newly acquired ability to make the three-point shot could also be putting him in rare company. With just four more assists, he will become only the fourth player in NBA history to score 1,800 points, make 100 three-point shots and deliver 600 assists in a single season.


Additionally, his ability to block shots is extraordinary for a point guard. With just two more blocked shots he will become the first point guard in NBA history to record 1,800 points, 600 assists and 50 blocks in a single season.
With two more blocks and six more assists, he'll become just the third player in NBA history to amass 1,800 points, 600 assists and 50 blocks.


When you set aside the rates and equation and just appreciate what Rose has done in sum, you can make a credible argument that Rose's season is the best all around season by a point guard in NBA history (depending on what you call Oscar Robertson).
While there is something to be said for rates, and per minute stats and yes, field goal percentage, those things should be considered, but sheer volume of production should be taken into consideration too.


In terms of total production, the historic numbers being posted by Rose cannot be ignored.

in other words

He would be a more deserving MVP candidate then Timmy was in both his MVP seasons.

[Dimmauk]

Rose having a historic season not just being the youngest. but this as well




in other words

He would be a more deserving MVP candidate then Timmy was in both his MVP seasons.

Obama has the best PER of all time, so he is the greatest of all time.

[Kaslo]

Russ West could catch that 2000/600 number still. Only need to average 75 ppg in next 4 games

[Dimmauk]

He would be a more deserving MVP candidate then Timmy was in both his MVP seasons.

Yeah cause they play the same position. You dumb.