Economic failure

[Mytiwar]

Something like 40 synths if your making a bronze chainmail and making the hempen tabard for it. High lvl crafters aren't going to be doing that later on so there will always be something for new crafters to make and profit on.

Pretty much. If you could make money in FFXI processing logs into lumber and selling just that... now you need to turn a log into a lumber into a part and use like 4 parts coming from 4 different synths for the finished product.
No fucking way people are leveling all those synths when the market wards work and people can sell the parts for a decent price.

Although I do foresee a problem with the gil reward from leves being so high... they'll probly find a way to stabilize everything though.

[Sephiroth]

The way I see it is gil is probably worth around 10% of what it was in XI. That piece of gear you just bought for 60k would be 6k in XI, that million gil you have would be 100k in XI. We're just playing with higher numbers. As long as we don't get high inflation that's fine.

[Kirbyprime]

In case someone wants to see just how much work it takes to make that "rip off" armor you bought... an example.

Hempen Cowl r14

Earth Shard 72
Lightning Shard 21
Wind Shard 6
Moko Grass 5

Those the are raw materials used to make everything. In between you have around another 15-20 synths including 31 hempen yarns, 9 hempen cloths, hempen cowl parts, etc.

Given current prices of shards being at roughly 10-15k per 99. Even the shards alone would make the end product cost over 12k. After you factor in time spend, possible breaks, etc, you're looking at an item that "should" be worth no less than 18k.

[Darus Grey]

The way I see it is gil is probably worth around 10% of what it was in XI. That piece of gear you just bought for 60k would be 6k in XI, that million gil you have would be 100k in XI. We're just playing with higher numbers. As long as we don't get high inflation that's fine.

Which we will get, it's not even a question. We're already seeing inflation, give it a few months and we'll be into hyper inflation territory. Money does nothing but enter the economy in the current state, we'd need gil-sinks that cost 100-200k a day to counter-act the influence of gil from leves.

[Meresgi]

Which we will get, it's not even a question. We're already seeing inflation, give it a few months and we'll be into hyper inflation territory. Money does nothing but enter the economy in the current state, we'd need gil-sinks that cost 100-200k a day to counter-act the influence of gil from leves.

I have yet to see any inflation on my server, sure some people do sell higher then others, but prices have not jumped around drastically at all. As people have leveled the gear, like Bronze Hauby, have gone from 180k to settle around 130k while newer shiny gear has taken the place of being very pricey...since people are not near those levels yet and when they get there, those items in turn will scale down as well and stabilize.

Indeed, with crafting classes surplus serves only to help the rich get richer. I said this when the game launched but then the SE defence force came out telling me it's okay. Anyone who is at the top of the curve now will stay that way until they reach the level cap, no matter how much time you can devote to skilling up your craft.

Maybe im reading this wrong...but are you complaining that the people who devoted time and effort into leveling crafts instead of other jobs, are on top when it comes to wealth? Yeah if you start now they will always be 1-2 steps ahead of you, but eventually you'll catch up to them, if you're complaining they will always be those 1-2 steps ahead for a while...well I guess you should have started a crafting job day 1 then.

[Darus Grey]

I have yet to see any inflation on my server, sure some people do sell higher then others, but prices have not jumped around drastically at all. As people have leveled the gear, like Bronze Hauby, have gone from 180k to settle around 130k while newer shiny gear has taken the place of being very pricey...since people are not near those levels yet and when they get there, those items in turn will scale down as well and stabilize.

Goods inflation is not the same thing as economic inflation. The price is going down on items because competition is finally catching up to the people who were selling at 5000%+ profit margins, not because of a "Stabilizing" effect, these items will eventually floor out to normal 10-15% profit margins(or start losing, depending on the nature of the item). Inflation will happen from the bottom up, as resource prices slowly creep up and over-take current item values.

[Sephiroth]

SE just need to make it like 5k to rent chocobos and people will use 3-5 of those per day. That will be a big gil sink. Similar prices for airships. Start charging for the ferry too, perhaps a faster boat that costs money while keeping the current one free for newbs. Lots of things they can do for gil sinks.

[Degenxerate]

Maybe im reading this wrong...but are you complaining that the people who devoted time and effort into leveling crafts instead of other jobs, are on top when it comes to wealth? Yeah if you start now they will always be 1-2 steps ahead of you, but eventually you'll catch up to them, if you're complaining they will always be those 1-2 steps ahead for a while...well I guess you should have started a crafting job day 1 then.

Will this make it hard for players starting down the line to get started? If people who are just joining in a few months/years have much higher prices to deal with they might have to do 1000 times the work people are doing now. In FFXI i know it could get pretty hard for newer players and that would turn a lot of people off from the game. I hope that doesn't happen here.

[Cureslime]

New players will be banging their heads against the wall from boredom before they ever hit surplus on a crafting job in a week. Inflation is balanced out with oversaturation very nicely right now. I don't see this changing in the future since almost everything is easy mode to create and items are never removed from circulation. Stuff like shoes and chainmails are the only things that won't become oversaturated because they're annoying as hell to make.

New people will have no trouble gearing up at low levels. You're fine wearing this crap up to lvl20:
DoM: Hempen Cowl (10k), Copper Scepter (8k) or Maple Wand (4-6k)
DoW: Copper Barbut (8-10k), Sheepskin Harness (10k), weapon really depends on class but they will soon become saturated and drop to 10-20k each as well.

Even a clueless player who knows the value of nothing, doesn't know how to equip skills, and doesn't know how to refill their mana can make 5k an hour vendoring everything. Combine that with the gear obtained from leves and they're not in a bad position at all.

For experienced players...yeah there's way too much money in circulation and nothing to spend it on. I need like 3-4 iron tools (that zero people on the server are selling) and a new PUG weapon that's better than the Dodoskin Cesti (nobody is selling.) I couldn't even spend my money if I wanted to. I would abuse the hell out of chocobos and airship rides if they'd sell them to me.

[Xavier]

Novel concept: gather your own resources, craft your own gear, do leves -- Gil is irrelevant right now. Stop being impressed or freaked out at the large numbers; you're approaching the situation with a FFXI economic mindset and it's just not applicable here. Create self-sufficient characters and you'll be fine.

THE SKY IS FALLING.

[BlackheartX]

Not only is this jumping the gun, but in the entirely wrong direction...

The free flow of gil from leves means exactly the opposite of your hypothesis, in XI the only ways money entered the economy were beastmen drops and NPCing items(and quests but they were nonsignificant), meaning those with enormous wealth actually controlled sizeable chunks of a comparatively static item. This economic system is more comparable to the real world, you go harvest resouces(items to npc or mobs) and use them to bring wealth into the economy.

In XIV it's impossible to control, and just flows freely from a magical source. This is the economic system of Zimbabwe, magical money everywhere, and it's all absolutely worthless.

As it stands gil will inflate week after week until we eventually have a barter economy.

Barter economies fucking BLOW.

Is that like printing magic money?

@XIV Economy
Seen quite a few RMT spamming pretty large amounts for like 8$ so if that's any indication of what to expect money to be worth, follow the trail of RMT spam.

[Crizto]

Novel concept: gather your own resources, craft your own gear, do leves -- Gil is irrelevant right now. Stop being impressed or freaked out at the large numbers; you're approaching the situation with a FFXI economic mindset and it's just not applicable here. Create self-sufficient characters and you'll be fine.

THE SKY IS FALLING.

Mind has been blown.

[Nevex]

Create self-sufficient characters and you'll be fine.

The repair bullshit completely shatters this concept unless you plan on capping every single DoH. Most players aren't going to do that.

[miokomioko]

Or, you know, only work on the 2 or 3 DoHs that make most of the the tools/weapons/armor for your main class?

There's not a whole lot of use for Blacksmithing, Armoring, and Cooking for repairs if you're going to be mostly just a Conjurer.