Synth support mechanics

[bruiser]

Anyone have theories on what this does? I have had all of the following experiences:

- Getting higher levels of synth support makes the message about "requiring larger accomodations" go away
- Certain synths recommend various levels of support, such as Common Smith's Forge, Guild Smith's Forge, etc
- After levelling up, the recommended forge changed from Guild Smith's Forge to Common Smith's Forge (*)
- LS mate claims he was told he required larger accomodations for bronze nuggets at rank 11 (**)


(*) pretty sure this happened, 95%. but don't remember with 100% confidence
(**) can't confirm this, and it doesn't seem to match with my experience.


If it's anything like 11, then Common Smith's Forge would be skill+1, Guild Smith's Forge would be skill+2, and Master Smith's Forge would be skill+3.

if so, you could use this to your benefit to easily determine what level things are exactly.

For example, if being rank 10 a synth required common smith's forge, but being rank 11 did not say it required larger accomodations, then maybe one could assume that a synth is exactly rank 11.

Thoughts? Experiences?

[miokomioko]

I don't know if needing the 3 different levels of synthesis is even based off your current rank. Some recipes just straight-up suggest it, regardless of whether you're above the rank or below it.

[Achitophel]

I still get that message for Bronze Nuggets at 12-13. I can make 'em easily enough, but the message is (or was) still there.

[Darus Grey]

Just on casual observation I think this is the right track at least, I think it's just a straight modifier to your level +1/2/3 i.e. using it at 20 makes it as if you were doing it at level 23 without support for whatever difference level modifiers difficulty.

[miokomioko]

Why then, would an official recipe have a recommendation on the level of support recommended? It wouldn't be just a rank modifier. That would have the same as making the recipe one rank higher.

It looks like an additional difficulty factor on some recipes. It's something that would force you to wait and do it at a facility if you didn't want higher difficulty, or even wait until you were home at the guild before diving into it. AKA: You won't be parking your butt and making these items in between battling on the field and attempts at it will cost you a little bit of gil too unless you are alright with the additional difficulty.

[Darus Grey]

They could just be entirely different mechanics. Needing accommodations vs rank modifier and not be related at all.

[Kaelan?]

- Getting higher levels of synth support makes the message about "requiring larger accomodations" go away
- Certain synths recommend various levels of support, such as Common Smith's Forge, Guild Smith's Forge, etc

It doesn't just make the message go away, it makes an enormous amount of difference in the synth difficulty. I still have trouble making bronze ingots without support at 25. The difference is even larger on synths that require higher tiers of support.

- After levelling up, the recommended forge changed from Guild Smith's Forge to Common Smith's Forge (*)

- That's bullshit, it doesn't change. My forge requirements haven't changed at all from when I was 1ARM. Ingots still take Common support and Wire still takes Guild support.

- I don't think it makes any change to your skill. I haven't noticed any benefit at all from using it on synths that don't require it (I've even heard some people say it could be detrimental if the synth doesn't require it).

- Another thing I can add is that on synths that require Tier 2 ("Guild") support, having Tier 1 ("Common") does seem better than not having any at all (but obviously not as good as having Tier 2).

[Hyan]

I thought it just gives you the necessary training needed for the synth? And if you have bought the needed training with guild marks already, the support does nothing?

[Kaelan?]

Looks independent from training to me. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense to have some synths need only training, some only support and some both.

[Crizto]

Does getting support when it isn't needed benefit you? I remember someone posting that it actually hindered, but I haven't tested this out or anything. I just tend to use it when it's needed. And if you get a support that is higher than the one recommended, does that benefit you more than getting the correct support?

[bruiser]

Also, if it says you need the level 1 support, then I've noticed that higher tiers of support also make the "larger accomodations" message go away.

So I guess it's just like a completely separate difficulty factor independent of your level. Like, a synth can be rank 21, support rank 2. And if you're rank 50, then you'll still do poorly without support. So getting support rank 2 or 3 is ideal, but even support rank 1 is better than nothing.

So I wonder if there's any merit to always getting the highest tier of support, or if you should always stick with exactly the level that is suggested.

[Meresgi]

I figured it just added a rank or 2 to your actual rank, aka if Willow Mask requires rank 15, being rank 13 with 2nd or 3rd tier support would make it easier to craft the masks, even though the masks do not require any support or training...if it hampers you though..I need to stop dropping cash on support while trying to rank up on them. I honestly notice no difference, then again im still unsure of what each color means fully and just spam standard till it breaks or completes.

[TStupified]

For anyone still thinking that the most expensive support is always the best, it's not like that. The recommended supports seems to be always better than the other ones, even if the recommended one is the cheapest, common one. I hate seeing some people giving advides like "alwayz uz mastah suppart, it be da bezt" when I've found that to be complete bullshit from my own observations. There are many synths that have common support recommended, if you use a guild or masters one in those synths, the chances are high that you'll fail a lot more than with the common one.

One thing I don't know though, is that are the supports useful at all for synths that don't have any support recommendations? There are many equipment synths that people aim to and probably like to try them at lower than the recommended rank for shits and giggles, would using a masters support make any difference in that situation, or any situation when synthing something like that, recommended rank or not?

[zsuper]

Synths that require facilities definitely have nothing to do with increased skill.

I fail synths 10+ levels below me about 50% of the time if I don't have the correct facility. The ones I succeed at are just barely successful.

[zsuper]

98% sure synth support does nothing, aside from synths that require facilities.

Did 20 synths 4 levels higher than me. 10 were done with max support, 10 were done with none. There was absolutely no difference between any of the synth attempts. I succeeded 4/10 with and 5/10 without. When I failed, I failed around the same place (70-80%) on almost every attempt.

I also did 5 more synths later with support, and I saw the same success rate as in my earlier test. 2/5 were successful.

If facilities actually gave a benefit, my success rate should have been much higher.


tl;dr don't waste gil on facilities unless the synth requires them.

[sharneee]

some more anecdotal evidence:

I've been trying to making decorated scepters lately and failing all the attempts without support and passing 4/5 with support (easily). i can pass higher rank synths without support easily enough but scepters without support are impossible.

speculation: synth support acts like the training (inlaying in this case). if i ever get any GLD guild marks I'll test this theory.

[jPuff]

For anyone still thinking that the most expensive support is always the best, it's not like that. The recommended supports seems to be always better than the other ones, even if the recommended one is the cheapest, common one. I hate seeing some people giving advides like "alwayz uz mastah suppart, it be da bezt" when I've found that to be complete bullshit from my own observations. There are many synths that have common support recommended, if you use a guild or masters one in those synths, the chances are high that you'll fail a lot more than with the common one.

One thing I don't know though, is that are the supports useful at all for synths that don't have any support recommendations? There are many equipment synths that people aim to and probably like to try them at lower than the recommended rank for shits and giggles, would using a masters support make any difference in that situation, or any situation when synthing something like that, recommended rank or not?

At the risk of sounding dumb, where/how do you find out which support is recommended?

[Ratatapa]

When you are at the page where it tells you the Crystals

First line will say about a facility exemple Common Guild or Master

[Achitophel]

Didn't sound dumb: there's so many fucking windows, no one blames anyone for clicking through ASAP.

[TStupified]

At the risk of sounding dumb, where/how do you find out which support is recommended?

Yeah like Ratatapa said, the window where it shows you what crystals will be used for the synth, I think it's the last one popping up before you start synthing. Remember that some synths don't have any recommended facility, so there won't be any mentioned in those.