Interesting Blog for Gladiators and Openers:

[Roxas]

Hello, while trying to come across some information on threat mechanics on this site and others I came across this blog. It seems to be the beginning of a good guide and has answers for starting tanks in FFXIV.

yes, I know some of the information is repetitive to what is one these forums, but it may be an aid in the future.

http://ventusinvictus.blogspot.com/

[Narol]

I think the part I like the most is that for whatever reason he uses "threat" for most of that article, then slips into using "enmity" once. Probably because he looked at the skill description while he wrote it and saw the term the game actually uses.

I mean, it's a decent enough article, but using the WoW name for something that's had a consistent name for years in both FFXI and FF14 is pretty silly. That's like saying "Warlock and Shaman" instead of "Thaumaturge and Conjurer" just because WoW does it that way.

[Gokulo]

"Warlock and Shaman" are two entirely different entities/classes from "Thaumaturge and Conjurer". "Threat" and "enmity" refer to the same thing. I find it to be a silly semantics argument.

[Roxas]

I feel like the general consensus is that threat and enmity refer to the same thing in the MMO-genre. Nit-picking such minor details and comparing them to completely different concepts (LOCK and SHAM to CNJ and THM) makes it seem like you are just an a**. But hey, thats my personal opinion. I liked the action order he suggested L>P>A>S (Light Slash > Provoke > Aegis Boon > Still Precision)

[Narol]

The game specifically says one thing. Calling it something similar but from a different game is incorrect. If the game argued to call it something completely different, like "attention" or whatever, I'd still insist on using that because that's what the game uses. Doing otherwise is what "makes it seem like you are just an ass."

[KarrilDaltaya]

I have always heard people just call it "Hate". -shrug-

[HAMBURGERMEAT]

its a decent read if you need help managing hate with your toon

[Gokulo]

its a decent read if you need help managing hate with your toon

I see what you did there

[Uzor]

Those things he mention are obvious things most people should have discovered throughout leveling Glad unless they're stupid. I was hoping for more statistical things like how much hate abilities give :/ I mean, I'm only level 17, but can still tank 3 mobs at a time just fine :/

[Lucavi]

You want hate as a glad? Cast a fucking buff. Cast Stoneskin while your other party members throw a rock at the mob or something. Cast shock spikes. Cast protect. Buffs build more hate than anything in this game, especially AOE buffs. or buffs that target a member of the party.

[Roxas]

Lucavi, aren't Still Precision and Aegis Boon both buffs? and only DoM can cast AoE buffs anyways

[Kurokikaze]

Yeah Luc, DoM build more hate with buffs cause they can AoE them. Subbing them negates that effect thus rendering your suggestion pointless. :/

[tol]

this thread is about exactly the same thing as another thread posted 2 days ago. merge?

@emnity/threat debate: god could you morons argue about something that actually matters?

[Lucavi]

Kuro, if I SS myself, it rips it off the tank. Have you tried single-casting stoneskin mid battle? Or shock spikes? I know personally that I don't have to hit everyone with my spells (or anyone else other than me) for mr. Mob to come trundling over to say hi.

I wish it wasn't true, but I've died too many times to does while trying to AOE-cast stoneskin, have the tank run up and pound the mobs to engage them, then my spell hits just myself and I wind up dead from a volley of ranged attacks.

-Try- it in-game before you accuse my comments of being pointless. Get in a group, hit the mob once, tell everyone else to fight normally, then cast stoneskin or protect or something. See if the mob comes running back. I'm not saying that still precision and the others aren't buffs, but if I can single-target my buff and get myself killed, perhaps mage buffs simply offer more hate.

Or perhaps SE has done something stupid like tweaked the threat percentage of mage abilities to be naturally higher than tanks, which would be fail. I dunno. I just don't like it.

[Roxas]

I think you missed the part, so let me reiterate, DoW CANNOT cast AoE buffs. A spell is naturally single target, when you are a conjurer, simply being a conjurer allows you to cast aoe, and being a THM allows you to cast conical. Yes, aoe buffs produce a lot of hate, but good tanks still keep the mobs attention.

[Uzor]

Kuro, if I SS myself, it rips it off the tank. Have you tried single-casting stoneskin mid battle? Or shock spikes? I know personally that I don't have to hit everyone with my spells (or anyone else other than me) for mr. Mob to come trundling over to say hi.

I wish it wasn't true, but I've died too many times to does while trying to AOE-cast stoneskin, have the tank run up and pound the mobs to engage them, then my spell hits just myself and I wind up dead from a volley of ranged attacks.

-Try- it in-game before you accuse my comments of being pointless. Get in a group, hit the mob once, tell everyone else to fight normally, then cast stoneskin or protect or something. See if the mob comes running back. I'm not saying that still precision and the others aren't buffs, but if I can single-target my buff and get myself killed, perhaps mage buffs simply offer more hate.

Or perhaps SE has done something stupid like tweaked the threat percentage of mage abilities to be naturally higher than tanks, which would be fail. I dunno. I just don't like it.

Your tanks aren't good tanks then. I have no problem tanking a mob, even if a Conjurer runs in to AoE stoneskin, shock spikes, protect and shell in the middle of the battle. Or perhaps the problem is you doing it soon as the fight starts, rather than before the fight or in the middle/end of it :/

And to those that think Provoke does nothing; it does a lot. If I'm tanking a single mob, the other members can't even get it to look another way after 2 provokes and a taunt, especially if Phalanx is thrown in there. 2 provokes and a taunt takes, what? 15 seconds to throw? and out of those 15 sec the mob is pretty much forced to look at me for 9 seconds.

[Lucavi]

I think you missed the part, so let me reiterate, DoW CANNOT cast AoE buffs. A spell is naturally single target, when you are a conjurer, simply being a conjurer allows you to cast aoe, and being a THM allows you to cast conical. Yes, aoe buffs produce a lot of hate, but good tanks still keep the mobs attention.

I missed nothing. I said that even when I single-target, it still pulls hate. I'm implying that it is more the buff than the amount of targets that produces such hate-ripping aggression.

Uzor: It may have something to do with it. I'm more used to tanks not stopping for buffs and plunging straight into the fray than anything else, so maybe that's part of the problem; then I have to re-buff them with soughspeak at the start of the battle or their shit gets rocked or I get rocked for healing them so damned much.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Didn't really present anything new. I was actually gonna blog post about enmity mechanics last night but got halfway thought the post and went to bed. Maybe I'll finish that tonight.

Decent explanation though!

[Palin]

The game specifically says one thing. Calling it something similar but from a different game is incorrect. If the game argued to call it something completely different, like "attention" or whatever, I'd still insist on using that because that's what the game uses. Doing otherwise is what "makes it seem like you are just an ass."

Some guy posts something useful and this is your response? Get the stick out of your ass.

[Narol]

No, my response was two lines, one of which said the article itself was decent enough in content.

Get the stick out of yours.