FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Elcura]

People argue over literal pennies. Lint can be argued over. Anything can be argued over.

Give me back my lint you asshole.

Keeping this thread alive.

[Lucavi]

I saw it first, Elcura~!

[Tomino]

One thing that's really working against the game itself is the idea of mixing realistic environments/characters with 10 yrs old gameplay.

While one could get used to these 32x32 pixel villagers standing still and talking about their lovely town, it's ugly to see one perfectly modelled and textured guard forever standing there as you die because of a rat a few inches away.

Also, with the world being so detailed, the absence of any human activity feels even more missing. You clearly aren't looking at on old age RPG game but at the same time you're playing one. bah

[Hyan]

They clearly are focusing on the human activity instead of.. non-human activity.

Call for help-function, get to it!

[Lucavi]

I don't know what they were focusing on outside of pretty graphics and a stiff world. Its nostalgic in that sense, though, but seriously FFVI's NPCs had more life than XIV's.

[Riposte]

In what sense? I've fallen in-love with the truly foul language you can find this game.

[Lucavi]

Movement, BRP. Interesting speech only goes so far when you walk through a town and everyone's standing still. Most of that speech still feels dry when I walk into a "seedy" bar, and all I see are people sitting, leaning against walls, and staring through one another.

There's no life, no white noise. No laugher in the background; no plates clattering in the distance. Watch the intro video again. Look at the life in that bar. Then look at LL. If you think that SE intended for it to be all of us "bringing" that bar to life, then why are there NO seats for us to sit on? The NPCs have them all taken up, so they can sit there in a quiet room like mannequins, yet give us some "flavorful" speech when we stumble up to them.

[Hyan]

They seems to have focused more on making absolutely sure the economy works. To the extreme, even.

I see actual people moving and communicating all the time. Communicating NPC's aren't that important, making sure that we do is.

I've also fallen in love with the cutscenes. The intro cs's are so pretty.

No wonder I value MGS4 pretty high in my list of good "games".

[Riposte]

All of what you described is in FF6?

[Siatdiat]

I was impressed by "foul language"... when I was like 8 years old.

[Lucavi]

I walk into a town in FF6 (world of balance). People are moving. Obviously there's not much white noise, as not many games even had it back then, but there's far more life, yes. People go about their set paths in a way that looks a lot more convincing than everyone standing still that isn't in a crafting hub, just like with XI. Its amazing how similar the two are. The only NPCs that moved in that game on a semi-regular basis were again, the ones that were crafting.

Hell, even the kids in XIV stand still. Kids? Standing still? Really? They certainly didn't stand still in 6.

[Kaylia]

@CP
Try harder. You just managed to fill 5 pages without me

They seems to have focused more on making absolutely sure the economy works. To the extreme, even.

I see actual people moving and communicating all the time. Communicating NPC's aren't that important, making sure that we do is.

I've also fallen in love with the cutscenes. The intro cs's are so pretty.

No wonder I value MGS4 pretty high in my list of good "games".

The way players behave break that illusion more than anything. You need npc if you want to set up the "role playing" mood right.

I mean, just check the marketward. Do you really feel like you're walking in a medieval bazaar? No city ambient sound (people talking,metal clashing, footstep ), just 10 billions npc facing random direction in an empty room with players running between them. It's the same everywhere in the city and camp. The only places that feel right are the various guild halls, but mostly because the npc are actually doing something related to the place.

[Hyan]

The way players behave break that illusion more than anything. You need npc if you want to set up the "role playing" mood.

Maybe it's not something I value as much, because it doesn't bother me nor really immerse me in other games.

Few times now when I was in the marketward some random guy shouted something like "one piece rocks!" (probably made the connection from my name)... 30 mins later, we were grouping at the drybone camp together. I'm not saying marketwards work in creating that sort of environment, but if I'm playing an MMO, I value this kind of "role playing" more than anything the NPC's can do or say (if it's not in an awesome cutscene). We all have our roles, even if they're not always(most of the time) ruled by the setting around us.

Ul'dah definitely feels bland as a town though. The Marketwards aren't very inspiring either. I definitely prefer the Gridanian marketwards, and as a city too. Ul'dah just lacks edge, although as far as the overall setting their NPC's have the best dialogue.

[Elcura]

I was impressed by "foul language"... when I was like 8 years old.

It's the same kind of impression you get when you hear someone of a different nationality swear like a sailor in your native tongue.. It's unexpected, and what's not to like about that?

[Riposte]

Lucavi, you're dipping into some serious autism material. Trying way too hard there. Go play Final Fantasy 6 again or something similar, because you've completely lost all perspective.

EDIT: I never said foul-language "impressed" me. In a certain way I am impressed by how much grittier the dialogue is, considering just how PG FFXI was 99% of the time(and when it comes to sex, all of FF). More importantly the NPC dialogue in this game is both quite natural and charming. I want to know who is doing the translation(if one is even necessary, judging by the vocal cutscenes). FFXI also had some great writing, maybe it is the same dudes, but unleashed.

Oh and on the subject, I am very surprised there hasn't been a kotaku/etc post about FFXIV's more dirtier sexual innuendos. I am certain there is a fanboy audience for that kind of faux-outrage.

[Hyan]

Fight, Magic, Item, Flee.

[Kaylia]

Maybe it's not something I value as much, because it doesn't bother me nor really immerse me in other games.

Few times now when I was in the marketward some random guy shouted something like "one piece rocks!" (probably made the connection from my name)... 30 mins later, we were grouping at the drybone camp together. I'm not saying marketwards work in creating that sort of environment, but if I'm playing an MMO, I value this kind of "role playing" more than anything the NPC's can do or say (if it's not in an awesome cutscene). We all have our roles, even if they're not always(most of the time) ruled by the setting around us.

Ul'dah definitely feels bland as a town though. The Marketwards aren't very inspiring either. I definitely prefer the Gridanian marketwards, and as a city too. Ul'dah just lacks edge, although as far as the overall setting their NPC's have the best dialogue.

I never understood this. Someone yelling insanity in public isn't exclusive to ffxi/ffxiv. I love chatting with people as much as you, but I seriously don't see how the market ward (or anything inside the city) encourage communication between players.

Not related to ffxiv, but this is the kind of thing that get me going everytime (in lotro). It beat random /yell I've seen in other mmo out of the water.

Spoiler: show

Don't tell me you wouldn't send a reply to the first guy.

[Hyan]

No, it isn't. But that's the kind of thing I value. If the whole game is set up in a way that primarily social people populate it and communication is encouraged from the very beginning, that kind of phenomenon is more likely to happen.

Those LOTRO vids are awesome, but I think the game focuses too much on stuff like that. At least it's from a player's perspective, and not NPC's. Could they do more to encourage sociality in actual gameplay setting? Hell yes.

Once I have had to ask some hobbit about a quest objective, and that way we grouped the whole night. But it was really an exception, because usually the quest objectives are simple enough.

Maybe it's a cultural thing, because we don't really interact with strangers if we don't have any agenda. All this "individualistic" thinking prolly.

..And why the JP's always seem to adapt so easily to these systems.

[Kaylia]

. If the whole game is set up in a way that primarily social people populate it.

These players exist in every games, and in my experience, finding them is not difficult. Without being that guy who yell in trade chat, you will have plenty of opportunities to /befriend people if you bother trying.

I think the game focuses too much on stuff like that

What do you mean by "the game focuses too much on stuff like that"? When everyone is jaded by the gameplay, talking to people become impossible...you need these things to lighten the mood.

[edit]
And instead of playing mmo alone, why don't you drag friend along? It will make the early grind much more fun, and it will usually be enough to get you to the part where you party with people. I can't remember the last mmo I started alone.

[Riposte]

People are dying to talk about it in a data-collecting thread, but that's annoying, so I'll take it here.

I strongly believe post 20 SP rank requirements will be reduced. We could go into a little pet theory how the huge requirements are there to hide the lack of content. However, even if was intentionally grindy for the sake of grind, they will relearn what they learned with FFXI and adjust. They have even stronger reasons(so much stronger, lol) to do so now than they did in FFXI. I guess the question is when. I am in no rush to find out how terrible the grind is post 35, 40, whatever firsthand until then.