FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Lucavi]

Spent the last three pages? Before the post you just quoted, I had posted just twice on this entire thread. And I never acted like SE did anything, I gave a suggestion for what they should do, and it shouldn't be to have a running dialogue with an infamously impatient, unfocused, illogical, and unrealistic demographic.

Again, this works in WoW because of the type of people they tailor to mostly don't give a shit. They don't view WoW as a hobby, they view it as a video game. I viewed FFXI as a hobby- I don't really play video games.

So SE shouldn't care about what other people want, provided their suggestions resemble anything even close to another MMO or non-FF game, but they should care about what you want (which is apparently for them to just keep on keepin' on)? Okay then. Moving on.

Edit: one little gem from that review was the "Basically, it’s like using the Internet without a search engine. It’s a concept so absurd, it should never have been developed. " part. I never thought of the Market Ward like that, but damn, it really is similar.

[Achitophel]

Reading comprehension. I didn't say SE shouldn't care about what other people want, nor did I say they should only care about what I want, nor did I say I wanted them to "keep on keeping on". 0/3.

Would it be possible for you to respond to my post, as opposed to what you think my post might imply?

[Lucavi]

I'd rather they didn't say shit, didn't give us their preliminary opinions, didn't base their opinions off of one or two days of gameplay, and when it was eventually fixed, it was fixed the right way, for good. I don't care about their motivations or their logic. Fix it. Fix it right. I don't need the people running the game to act like we're old friends, chatting it up and having a beer or something.

This sounds a whole lot like you wanting the- I'm sorry... SUGGESTING them to do things the exact same way they do them now, aside from actually fixing things the first time around, because they kinda don't. This also sounds like you not wanting things that other games implement, like communication from the devs.

Try again.

[Achitophel]

Try again...at what? Saying that they should fix something right the first time is suggesting that they do things just as they do things now?

GASP! Are you saying you think they fix things right the first time?

Seriously, use logic here: if we're both in agreement that they don't fix things right the first time, how could I possibly be saying that my suggestion is that they "keep on keeping on"?

[Lucavi]

Try again...at what? Saying that they should fix something right the first time is suggesting that they do things just as they do things now?

GASP! Are you saying you think they fix things right the first time?

Seriously, use logic here: if we're both in agreement that they don't fix things right the first time, how could I possibly be saying that my suggestion is that they "keep on keeping on"?

Try to listen. Sit down, take your hands away from the keyboard, and read. Don't start thinking about wanting to hit the reply button too soon. Just read.

You want SE to not say a word and just roll out fixes right the first time. I am saying, and I am correct in saying, that this never happens. What you are asking for is a pipe dream.

Other people around here are asking for communication along the way because it at least allows SE to buffer the players before they start making incomplete fixes that they'll have to go back and ninja-patch later.

Let me ask you a question, Archi. Do you feel that the SP "fix" for DoM is "complete?" Do you feel that the issue, now that SE has "fixed" it, never needs further adjustment? Do you feel that the current state of rapid synthesis is "complete", now that it has been "fixed"? Do you feel that SE should never talk about those again, despite people constantly raising questions about them, because they have been addressed in some random update?

I'm saying that you're asking them to keep on keepin' on because what you want them to do is exactly what they are currently doing, that is: keeping their lips tight, not informing of us of anything, really, outside of fluff on the lodestone, and especially minus actually fixing things 100%, because that, in itself, is impossible, especially in a MMO, where things must constantly be tweaked and re-tweaked.

Its better for us, the paying customers, to hear about these tweaks, and what goes on behind the logic of said tweaks, then to simply be content to have our ears glued shut and be handed a random update that may or may not actually fix the problem.

Can you grasp that? Can you wrap your brain around that simple concept?

[Achitophel]

Try to listen. Sit down, take your hands away from the keyboard, and read. Don't start thinking about wanting to hit the reply button too soon. Just read.

You want SE to not say a word and just roll out fixes right the first time. I am saying, and I am correct in saying, that this never happens. What you are asking for is a pipe dream.

That's cool.

A) Okay? What you want is also a pipe dream (as far as actually leading to productive results).

B) You just totally changed the goalposts of the discussion. I thought you were trying to take me task for defending SE? Apparently, when that didn't work out, you wanted to change the topic to telling me about what's a pipe dream and what's not? That's cute, but I don't care.

The rest of your post was mindless drivel that didn't really have much a focus. Try to focus your thoughts better for next time. Think "Why am I posting?" If it's just to try to score e-points in a debate by changing what the debate is about, stand up. Take a walk outside. Make a sandwich. Just do something else.

[Toth]

So did we ever agree who will get fired first from this? I like the game a bit but the horrific reviews and poor sales (or dramatic sub drop inc) will need to be accounted for....

[Lovex]

That's cool.

A) Okay? What you want is also a pipe dream (as far as actually leading to productive results).

B) You just totally changed the goalposts of the discussion. I thought you were trying to take me task for defending SE? Apparently, when that didn't work out, you wanted to change the topic to telling me about what's a pipe dream and what's not? That's cute, but I don't care.

The rest of your post was mindless drivel that didn't really have much a focus. Try to focus your thoughts better for next time. Think "Why am I posting?" If it's just to try to score e-points in a debate by changing what the debate is about, stand up. Take a walk outside. Make a sandwich. Just do something else.

Please stfu. You're a moron.

[Maaglin]

When people refer to menu lag they are not referring to how shitty their computer is or that they are crafting at the repair npc in town or that some dumbass was too stupid as to not restart his computer for over a week. Even in your post you differentiate these two issues. But then you try to spin them both back together for some reason.

People are bitching because in every action they do that requires a menu (read: anything and everything), their is an unacceptable amount of time that it takes to execute those commands. We aren't talking about graphic lag running around town, or too high settings. Being able to execute basic game commands does not depend on your graphic setting(s).

You continue to conviently ignore things like people crafting in abbanded market wards. It still takes me at least 20-30 mins to organize my inventory with my retainer, regardless of if I'm in a full ward or an empty one. I can't remove a piece of gear to repair it without sometimes wondering if I really did un-equip it or not before finally having it taken off. Macros are borked. Whatever, could go on forever. None of these issues have anything to do with graphical settings.

[Dooom]

Ignoring the playerbase is a part of any company's routine, if they're not swimming in money.

There's a whole lot of "holy shit replying is a waste of time" in these few pages, but this line is just... I have no idea what to say. Since when was ignoring your paying customers ever a good business plan?

And how would you know that even if they told us?

Nothing in ever set in stone, any reasonable person knows and understands this, but hearing something from SE themselves is far better than looking into a crystal ball and going "is SP borked, or are we all just doin it wrong?"

[Argh]

So did we ever agree who will get fired first from this? I like the game a bit but the horrific reviews and poor sales (or dramatic sub drop inc) will need to be accounted for....

I think the tak and ko need to gtfo, they should of stayed in xi.

[Trigun]

There's a whole lot of "holy shit replying is a waste of time" in these few pages, but this line is just... I have no idea what to say. Since when was ignoring your paying customers ever a good business plan?



Nothing in ever set in stone, any reasonable person knows and understands this, but hearing something from SE themselves is far better than looking into a crystal ball and going "is SP borked, or are we all just doin it wrong?"

Watched the M64 podcast for this week. They told the story of when they made the video for GDC, in it they said Green Day Rock Band was gonna suck, room full of game comapanies boo'd, guess what it sucked. Yes in some way this does apply I just don't know how.

[miokomioko]

lern 2 reading comprehension, etc.

I'm saying people are often exaggerating the "lol unbearable menu lag in everything just because shitty server-confirmation delays" when they are trying to craft amongst a crowd of 1000 other people during rainy weather with their graphics settings too high for their system.

If player-A takes 5 seconds to bring up a menu that Player-B can bring up in 1 second... 4 seconds of Player-A's problem is not actual menu lag and can most likely be solved by using more realistic graphic settings... or stopping their downloads.

If someone turned their settings down all the way, went to an empty market ward, that would be the most raw representation of the lag caused by server-side confirmation bullshit. Anything past that is a combination of that PLUS server lag from overcrowding PLUS graphic lag from hardware limitations.

The first of those elements is completely unavoidable.
The second of those elements is somewhat avoidable, but inconvenient.
The third of those elements is completely avoidable.

[bigrougabagel]

Not sure if this has been posted yet (I've been away from the boards a couple days enjoying WoW ) but I just ran across this:

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/?f=2222

Holy shiy, well, I guess Mostly Harmless isnt that unique of a name. Still, surprised to see it here as it was the name of an old linkshell in ffxi on Leviathan.

[Elrina]

Holy shit, Miow/e and hyan serious question, do you work for SE? How the hell you defend it so much is beyond me.

Different perspectives, that's all. They simply feel different than the rest of us, and are just as stubborn, if not more so, than the majority. If you felt something was worth defending, despite it's faults, would you?

Dunno, I often (usually) don't agree with their perspective of things, but I can't fault them for it, and wanting to express it. Isn't that what we're doing?

And yeah, Mioko hasn't really chimed in on this at all, rofl. I imagine whatever he thinks was covered by Hyan or one of the rest of us, or a bit of both, so didn't feel it necessary to comment.

Back on point, I think we can all agree that, ultimately, something needs to be done, sooner or later. Whether it's in their usual habit of silence, or whether they speak out and communicate more effectively, the game needs some adjustments that work. As long as it gets those, whether some of us are still playing or not, it does have potential. It's just a matter of waiting, and finding out whether they patch and update it in a way that satisfies the majority of it's player base.

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Lag issues are clearly server side. Examples; retainer lag(menu and general chat), local leve lag(menu), stamina in combat lag(you'll hit an ability and it'll fire off right away sometimes, other times it'll take 2-3s), buy/sell lag. If you're running 60fps everywhere, except for crowded areas, then obviously the lag is server side. I've never played a game with lag this bad, even at vanilla launch. Hope the patch tonight will clear up one of the lag issues.

[D44kpunk]

Holy shit, Miow/e and hyan serious question, do you work for SE? How the hell you defend it so much is beyond me.

I'd been thinking this all along but most people that think SEs updates are gods gift to earth are just sheltered in their own world. If you only play one MMO (like most of you have with ffxi.) you think it's the greatest game ever, it's irritating to see people praise SE for things like abyssea (I mean really? reskinned mobs/zones they couldnt even create new areas? =/)

but yeah, that's why they probably worship SE, they don't know better. and although hyan claims he's played so many other games. he really hasn't

[miokomioko]

I mostly prefer to debate with the loud nay-sayers that I feel are exaggerating the issues beyond reason because of "nerdrage" or blaming shit on the "lazy devs" who are actually having their hands forced by the suits upstairs. The game does have many serious problems that can't be defended. However, I am one of the few who is expecting eventually fixes for most, if not all, of the biggest issues... even though for now I'm having my casual funs as-is.

Then you get people like D44kpunk, who are too stubborn to imagine there might be a grey area between hating Square-Enix and "worshipping" Square-Enix.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8082/calv.jpg

[Lucavi]

That's cool.

A) Okay? What you want is also a pipe dream (as far as actually leading to productive results).

B) You just totally changed the goalposts of the discussion. I thought you were trying to take me task for defending SE? Apparently, when that didn't work out, you wanted to change the topic to telling me about what's a pipe dream and what's not? That's cute, but I don't care.

The rest of your post was mindless drivel that didn't really have much a focus. Try to focus your thoughts better for next time. Think "Why am I posting?" If it's just to try to score e-points in a debate by changing what the debate is about, stand up. Take a walk outside. Make a sandwich. Just do something else.

You are a complete and utter fool.

[D44kpunk]

I mostly prefer to debate with the loud nay-sayers that I feel are exaggerating the issues beyond reason because of "nerdrage" or blaming shit on the "lazy devs" who are actually having their hands forced by the suits upstairs. The game does have many serious problems that can't be defended. However, I am one of the few who is expecting eventually fixes for most, if not all, of the biggest issues... even though for now I'm having my casual funs as-is.

Then you get people like D44kpunk, who are too dense to imagine there might be a grey area between hating Square-Enix and "worshipping" Square-Enix.

Like I said earlier, clearly you think everyone that gave it a review and everyone on these forums is wrong and FF14 is a great game. It deserves 9s and 10s on reviews. you're not the brightest crayon in the box. plus you're extremely paranoid for ff14. gamespot might lower their review to a 1 if you aren't careful, just to spite you, and ff14.