FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[plue]

I have to roll my eyes every time someone uses the word "audacity," making themselves sound like a pompous chode.

Also, what hype? I'm pretty sure everyone who is playing right now had a real fucking good idea how the game was (wasn't) shaping up from alpha straight up to the few days before launch as soon as the NDA was lifted.

Are you aware of the purpose of a test phase to a game?

The purpose of it is to test the game, find the problems, and then fix them. Is it irrational for people to assume that changes would be made from the testing phase to the release of the game? No, because the problems were reported, discussed, and made clear to the developer.

SE in conjunction with not fixing these blaring issues, also kept promising players new elements that would accompany the launch of the game. Were these promises kept? No, the game was kept in the exact same state as the testing phase.

I don't see your point Mioioio.

Leves could have been an amazing mechanic. They still have the potential to be good in the future. They need a shit-ton of tweaking, but at least they are a step in the right direction as far as questing goes.

Actually I just like the cool cards they're on. >.>

You run, you get a leve, you run to Aetheryte, you initiate the leve, you run for 20 mins to find mobs that run away, you 2-shot the mobs. I spend more time running than fighting anything, and when I do get to fight something, I either kill it in 2 hits, or it destroys me. The quests are all exactly the same, and each level range only has like 5 you can cycle per city. I think I've done each rank 20 leve like ten times already. Not only are they too simplistic, without any point to them except material gain, but their difficulty scaling is also completely fucked up. The instance system also destroys the "immersion", or the feel of the world if you will, because it isolates you from the rest of the game environment.

[What?]

There's plenty of immersion in guildleves with monsters that follow you forever and get in your AoE range all the time.

Seriously though, guildleves are awful. I was doing one where I had to "chase" a Lalafel assassin for like 5 minutes after I killed his buddies and he was moving so slowly I could more or less keep pace just walking beside him. I couldn't keep myself from cracking up because it was so stupid and it kept on going and going. Exciting stuff, for sure.

[Achitophel]

How much of that difficulty was due to the ridiculous level limits put on it?

I dunno. It was what it was. Challenging and rewarding.

[Riposte]

How much of that difficulty was due to the ridiculous level limits put on it?

Any game with levels is a game with the same "ridiculous level limits". The only fundamental difference between the (then) limit at 75 and the ones you got during missions is that it is incredibly easy to cheese things at 75. All they did was slide numbers and the encounters were relative to that. It is not "cheap difficulty" or any stupid notion like that.

[Grey Jorildyn]

The audacity? Or putting out an MMO that didn't live up to the hype? What MMO, actually what GAME has ever lived up to it's hype? There has not been a single game made that wasnt hyped to shit and didn't live up to it, same for movies, television shows, comics, and pretty much everything in life.

"living up to the hype" is merely a subjective observation. There are tons of people out there who feel X game lived up to its hype. For example, some people feel that way about StarCraft II, some don't, and it's the same for any other hyped game. It is up to the consumer to decide what is over-hyped or under-appreciated in the gaming world. You'll have to excuse me if my statement appeared objective--it was not.

However that does not make SE any less wrong than they were, because going back to what I said above, I doubt there is even ONE person who felt this game lived up to its hype. It's quite nearly an objective observation with this game, but who really knows.

[Eldoras]

"living up to the hype" is merely a subjective observation. There are tons of people out there who feel X game lived up to its hype. For example, some people feel that way about StarCraft II, some don't, and it's the same for any other hyped game. It is up to the consumer to decide what is over-hyped or under-appreciated in the gaming world. You'll have to excuse me if my statement appeared objective--it was not.

However that does not make SE any less wrong than they were, because going back to what I said above, I doubt there is even ONE person who felt this game lived up to its hype. It's quite nearly an objective observation with this game, but who really knows.

In fairness I went with the "bashed FF14" before launched and was as surprised as anyone. However I'll qualify it fairly and in objective fairness; its kind of like a sandbox mmo~ which frankly, I don't think any of us expected. I kind of frankly have very odd memories of EQ on this game which is pretty damn scary lol! But I think this is for the most part a huge "con/negative" for the player base. Lets face it, we're all mostly now used to a macro~virtual economy where items are easier to obtain and where game advancement and achievement can be more easily tracked. To make it even more apparent, for any NA that played CoP on the first day of launch, ask yourself (1) how often did you die "trying" to get to the top floor of any promy and/or (2)were you in LS's that spent a week or more farming and waiting 24 hrs x 3 for your anima and the frickin effort it took just to go past the promy. That's the kind of the irritation I think players who really hate this game feel; its hard as f**k for the majority because doing anything takes a ungodly amount of effort that most mmo vets, newcomers or former WoW/FF11 players aren't used to.

Do I think this is a bad thing? Not actually at all. Its true people will and have left over it but frankly its not the first time a game had nearly no tutorial and was a huge learning curve to begin with; Eve-online players know that all too well. I think the disappointment with FF14 is that as ironic as it sounds we were expecting something closer to FF11 but then again when was the damn last time one FF game had the same thing as another FF game with a different numeral and no I don't mean FF X-2 or what not. FF4 is pretty far and away different from FF7 and FF8. FF9 is pretty much the contrast of FF8 despite being made along side one another. FF8 is probably closer to the older FF's but still has differences in the storyline and progression. Hype is what it is: hype. Frankly in the fairest sense, FF14 wasn't really overly hyped (remember the small E3 booth area) and it was really Star War's: TOR that was really being hyped up if anything that was just capturing the imagination of the mmo industry. The current game that is being hyped up now is Guild Wars 2 as far as mmo's go. So the hype wasn't really THAT big....

On another note I'd also say FF14 might have tried to do too much; leves are what they are. Sure they may seem silly and sure you can probably at some stage in the game do them and just laugh at the mob. Fact is no one is pointing a gun to your head and say do it. I'd also say for most melee players, its a pretty huge source of income for them and if it were harder, that'd just kill a huge source of income for them. Does it have potential? I feel yes, it does. Do they need to tweak it? Yes, but because you hate it does it mean its a failed product? Well, people hate PC's and Mac's but we live with both so there's your answers. I think they might have done too little with it but I think they need faction rewards to be better and the credits paid out doing regional leves to be higher.

And as I said before, its nice we all "feel we know how a game should run" but about 90% of the ppl who say that really don't and at the end of the day we just like to vent because we just have to. Fact is we're not playing the original EQ; this ain't WoW. Hell this isn't even a sandbox per se like Eve online is nor is it anything that we've experienced form FF11. The fact is its by and far distant from our normal sentiments about what constitutes an mmo. Leves don't have to be hard because you can do it easily; NA's were balling their eyes when the original Promy's were slapping the majority of players around like a bit** and people complained. Like the game, hate, really whatever. But how about we stop whining since it is what it is. And yea I know how a game should be made because I get paid to do that on a daily basis and I feel I'm just more brilliant of a mind than the next poster. But seriously, it is a game and its not easy to make one and its not made to please and satisfy everyone and its far easier to handle and enjoy than most make it and the fact is I had to several hours ago hear a Justin Bieber concert because my niece is over and this game is far more tolerable than that sh*t was.

[Lordender]

The only reasons why this game will never live up to the hype is because people expected 14 to be 11 with:


Instanced end game content like HNM thru leve's.
Being able to solo to the cap at a decent rate, eliminating the forced LFG.
Making the game casual to appeal to a broader audience.
Much better job balance compared to how terrible the jobs were balanced in 11. Certain jobs were just a whole lot less popular in exp parties than others. Dumb ass overpowered abilities like Utsusemi were way to broken and relied on way to much.
Strong stance on RMT.
Much better communication and showing the community they have learned from 8 years of XI and would move quickly on implementing fast fixes.

The jury is still out on a lot of those things, but one thing is for sure, they still move way too slow on fixing things, communication is a bit better but no where near where it needs to be. SE half-assed so much on this game that they have dug themselves a very big hole that I even wonder if they will climb out of it.

Instead of making a next gen MMO that is casual, accessible, fun, they made a huge grindfest that makes it a total chore to play and the entire game has been designed for you to take as much time as possible to get anything done. SE needs to get with the times, this isn't the 90's anymore where everyone likes grinding for days on end.

[Hyan]

Yeah, this is the 2010 where games fail one after another because there is little to no grind.

They better learn and fast.

Strong stance on RMT.

The whole fucking game is based on countering RMT.. I certainly hope that's not a "things we expected but never happened" list.

they still move way too slow on fixing things

There is no company that is faster. This is some utopistic shit right here.

[Kaylia]

The whole fucking game is based on countering RMT.. I certainly hope that's not a "things we expected but never happened" list.

Wtf are you smoking. There is nothing to stop rmt, and I can assure you they will be as present as ever.




Also, the games fail because there is less content than in many single players rpg. It's not hard to entertain a playerbase for 3 months until the next updates.

[miokomioko]

A majority of that list is irrelevant. End game content? Job balance? Anyone expecting that kind of shit from the start needs their head checked. The jury is still out on everything.

[Hyan]

Wtf are you smoking. There is nothing to stop rmt, and I can assure you they will ve as present as ever.

This is one of the most obvious points in the whole damn game. Almost everything is designed to combat RMT which can hurt players as well. You are blind if you don't see it.

Also, the games fail because they don't even have as much content as a single players games. It's not hard to entertain a playerbase for 3 months until the next updates.

Thank you for repeating my point. No company can make "enough" content to last if there is no grind to slow the players down. Even then everyone will catch up at some point, and developers need to stop that from happening if they don't want to have a shrinking playerbase.

[Kaylia]

This is one of the most obvious points in the whole damn game. Almost everything is designed to combat RMT which can hurt players as well. You are blind if you don't see it.

I'm blind. Enlight me.

Thank you for repeating my point. No company can make "enough" content to last if there is no grind to slow the players down

Blizzard usually do it with raid progression. It takes me 3 months to master a new instance, and generally, a new update will be released by the time I'm done. Sure, there is limit to slow you down (1 raid a week), but it's the exact opposite of grinding.

It's actually very possible to create contents that satisfy your players base. You just need to understand what people want to do, and SquareEnix seem oblivious to that.

[Hyan]

I'm blind. Enlight me.

Unestablished economy makes RMT's work harder. Fatigue caps on gathering make it harder for bots to function, as well as the minigames that come with them. Everything gets checked server side, making it even harder to make illegal tools for the game that can't be detected. Even shit like 8 guildleve limit is there to limit bots from abusing it.

Blizzard usually do with raid progression. It takes me 3 months to master the new contents, and generally, a new update will be released by the time we are done.

I know. Yet my friends are bored out of their mind when they can get that stuff in 2 weeks because shit's so casual. Then they stand around and wait.. or quit.

And if it takes 3 months to do it- there is grind, trust me. The concept of raid itself is like a huge fucking grind. You raid 3 months to raid another 3 months to raid another 3 months... then level cap gets raised and you raid 3 months then 3 months... but at least that shit happens in a group. As it should.

[Kaylia]

Your friend are probably bored because its been nearly one years since they added new contents. It's not blizzard's best year.


I will ignore your ridiculous exaggeration, but why is it an issue to quit when you're bored? WoW is easy to drop, but it's equally easy to pick up. That's how it should be. I was bored out of my mind for months in FFXI, but I couldn't quit because the group would disband, i couldnt quit because my character would be erased after 3 months, I couldnt quit because it was pretty much impossible to find group for less popular contents a while after the update...


And you havent explained how SE designed the game around RMT? I cant wait to crush any retarded argument you will make.

[Hyan]

Also, the games fail because there is less content than in many single players rpg. It's not hard to entertain a playerbase for 3 months until the next updates.

So, it's not hard to entertain a playerbase for 3 months (without grind I assume) yet even Blizzard can't do it?

Yet it seems to be an issue for these new games when people quit them. Why is that a bad thing? Maybe we should go ask the developers of these recently failed MMO's to tell you the answer to that.

I couldn't quit because the group would disband

How is that some FFXI-specific issue? Do you not need established groups in WoW anymore? How lame.

i couldnt quit because my character would be erased after 3 months

Doesn't happen, oh wait are we going back to 2005 with the argument time machine again? Man WoW was laggy PoS back then.

I couldnt quit because it was pretty much impossible to find group for less popular contents a while after the update

Maybe you need friends.

[Kaylia]

No, they did it for years, and they will do it for again starting with the next expansion. There was just a long gap between the end of the currents expansion and the next one (they added a raid in between, but it was bad, and it was followed by a huge graphic/gameplay overhaul that didn't add new contents).


We could go and ask these developper why their games failled, but these guys are moron, and their answers would be equally retarded. You could tell from the early interview FFXIV would blow. They had no grasp of the real issue, and never show any sign of intelligence. They were just pr machine.


There is a strong correlation between developper that sound clever/passionate in interview, and the quality of their games.

[Alderaan]

A majority of that list is irrelevant. End game content? Job balance? Anyone expecting that kind of shit from the start needs their head checked. The jury is still out on everything.

Why?

Forget about endgame content for a sec. Why is there no low level or midgame content? Why are there no group instances at level 10. Why aren't there any at level 20, and so forth? Leve kill quests are a poor excuse for instanced content as it stands now. You may as well just place more mobs in the actual world and not instance them and use the Leve system for actual fun content with raid bosses.

Why is class balance so difficult when there are so few to pick from anyways and no PVP to have to balance for?

The jury isn't out on anything, we already know the answers to all these questions.

[Hyan]

No, they did it for years, and they will do it for again starting with the next expansion. There was just a long gap between the end of the currents expansion and the next one (they added a raid in between, but it was bad, and it was followed by a huge graphic/gameplay overhaul that didn't add new contents).

Most of my friends already quit a long time ago, fyi. This isn't some recent phenomenon.

We could go and ask these developper why their games failled, but these guys are moron, and their answers would be equally retarded. You could tell from the early interview FFXIV would blow.

Ah, back to troll mode it seems.

Why is class balance so difficult when there are so few to pick from anyways and no PVP to have to balance for?

Oh, I dunno, hey, maybe it's because, you know, cross-class abilities and shit?

Leve kill quests are a poor excuse for instanced content as it stands now.

Instanced content is a poor excuse for any kind of content in an MMO. Why not make the whole game instanced if that's the shit players care about so much?

[Kaylia]

How is that some FFXI-specific issue? Do you not need established groups in WoW anymore? How lame.

Doesn't happen, oh wait are we going back to 2005 with the argument time machine again? Man WoW was laggy PoS back then.

Maybe you need friends.

An established group/guild will always perform better and will be more reliable than pug. However, you can do most of the contents with random people. While I played WoW, I met just as many people as I did in FFXI. The immature people might be more visible since you group with random people a lot more (and trade chat is loud), but it would be ignorant to say that it is not a team game.

@FFXI comments
What is this...I dont even...
I had a lot of friends, none were interested in story missions. It was virtuallly impossible on my server to find group for bastok S missions after the first two night. I could have done what I always did in the past, pressuring people into doing them (of course i was helping) until they reach the current missions, but I said fuck it and quit instead.

And you still havent told me why FFXIV destroy RMT.

[Kaylia]

Actually, don't bother answering how FFXIV fight RMT. Your answer would be retarded anyway.