FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Ksandra]

I don't know whether Blizzard could do it. I'm saying it might be possible depending on the circumstances, but even then there is no way to prove it's possible. But before Blizzard shows us it's possible, it's some utopistic shit and nothing else.

You sound like you've forgotten why this argument even started.

the argument started is because you like to call others idiots without any proof except you want to white knight. And it is not utopistic shit.

[BlackheartX]

In fairness I went with the "bashed FF14" before launched and was as surprised as anyone. However I'll qualify it fairly and in objective fairness; its kind of like a sandbox mmo~ which frankly, I don't think any of us expected. I kind of frankly have very odd memories of EQ on this game which is pretty damn scary lol! But I think this is for the most part a huge "con/negative" for the player base. Lets face it, we're all mostly now used to a macro~virtual economy where items are easier to obtain and where game advancement and achievement can be more easily tracked. To make it even more apparent, for any NA that played CoP on the first day of launch, ask yourself (1) how often did you die "trying" to get to the top floor of any promy and/or (2)were you in LS's that spent a week or more farming and waiting 24 hrs x 3 for your anima and the frickin effort it took just to go past the promy. That's the kind of the irritation I think players who really hate this game feel; its hard as f**k for the majority because doing anything takes a ungodly amount of effort that most mmo vets, newcomers or former WoW/FF11 players aren't used to.

Do I think this is a bad thing? Not actually at all. Its true people will and have left over it but frankly its not the first time a game had nearly no tutorial and was a huge learning curve to begin with; Eve-online players know that all too well. I think the disappointment with FF14 is that as ironic as it sounds we were expecting something closer to FF11 but then again when was the damn last time one FF game had the same thing as another FF game with a different numeral and no I don't mean FF X-2 or what not. FF4 is pretty far and away different from FF7 and FF8. FF9 is pretty much the contrast of FF8 despite being made along side one another. FF8 is probably closer to the older FF's but still has differences in the storyline and progression. Hype is what it is: hype. Frankly in the fairest sense, FF14 wasn't really overly hyped (remember the small E3 booth area) and it was really Star War's: TOR that was really being hyped up if anything that was just capturing the imagination of the mmo industry. The current game that is being hyped up now is Guild Wars 2 as far as mmo's go. So the hype wasn't really THAT big....

On another note I'd also say FF14 might have tried to do too much; leves are what they are. Sure they may seem silly and sure you can probably at some stage in the game do them and just laugh at the mob. Fact is no one is pointing a gun to your head and say do it. I'd also say for most melee players, its a pretty huge source of income for them and if it were harder, that'd just kill a huge source of income for them. Does it have potential? I feel yes, it does. Do they need to tweak it? Yes, but because you hate it does it mean its a failed product? Well, people hate PC's and Mac's but we live with both so there's your answers. I think they might have done too little with it but I think they need faction rewards to be better and the credits paid out doing regional leves to be higher.

And as I said before, its nice we all "feel we know how a game should run" but about 90% of the ppl who say that really don't and at the end of the day we just like to vent because we just have to. Fact is we're not playing the original EQ; this ain't WoW. Hell this isn't even a sandbox per se like Eve online is nor is it anything that we've experienced form FF11. The fact is its by and far distant from our normal sentiments about what constitutes an mmo. Leves don't have to be hard because you can do it easily; NA's were balling their eyes when the original Promy's were slapping the majority of players around like a bit** and people complained. Like the game, hate, really whatever. But how about we stop whining since it is what it is. And yea I know how a game should be made because I get paid to do that on a daily basis and I feel I'm just more brilliant of a mind than the next poster. But seriously, it is a game and its not easy to make one and its not made to please and satisfy everyone and its far easier to handle and enjoy than most make it and the fact is I had to several hours ago hear a Justin Bieber concert because my niece is over and this game is far more tolerable than that sh*t was.

To summarize, niche games are for niche players if you fell for the hype or just simply don't like the game GTFO. Game making hard... I make games.

Is that about right?

[Hyan]

Actually it does, because it shows how little they fixed since Beta.

Actually it shows where they started from. Nothing else.

the argument started is because you like to call others idiots without any proof except you want to white knight. And it is not utopistic shit.

Hey, I don't have to prove anything. It's all out there. If you want to prove its not utopistic, feel free to do so or shut the hell up.

[Ksandra]

Hey, I don't have to prove anything. It's all out there. If you want to prove its not utopistic, feel free to do so or shut the hell up.

you do because you said it and not only said it but basically think people are idiots for thinking otherwise. Basically back up your shit or shut up. Saying "they started further back" means jack shit.

[Silenka]

Points:

1. Shit takes longer in FFXI to fix not just because SE is bad, but because shit usually has to be fixed on multiple platforms. WoW is PC-onry. With FFXI, they must contend with PS2 and Xbawks as well as a terrible PC port of a PS2 game that uses spaghetti code so fucked up it would make the most hardened code monkey cry. Blizzard is indeed faster - they also tend to make better decisions concerning their games. (That being said, I really dislike WoW and loved FFXI, so I'm not white knighting)

2. FFXIV is bad and you should feel bad. Instanced content is the only way to keep some popular content from making the server too slow, or locking some people out of playing said content. Instancing is not a bad thing - it is only bad in an MMO when it's all the MMO offers. The example that comes to mind is Dragonica, a Korean MMO that had only instanced battlefields for all but the later levels (at least when I played it). Grinding on map xp mobs and doing stupid fetch quests and then having only instanced epic battles got old very quickly.

3. As for FFXIV being designed around combating RMT - that was obvious to me as well. The fatigue system may have practical applications in that players are being encouraged to branch out and be able to make/fix their own gear or be versatile, HOWEVER players who only like playing one class are screwed, and players who like playing multiclass would have done so anyway. The point of the fatigue system is honestly - this is the only way it makes sense to me - a way to keep a bunch of RMT from leveling to cap in a couple days and then monopolizing the mobs with good loot. It may not stop RMT (nothing ever does), but it will make it quite harder for them to operate.

The lack of a central economy - the Auction House, in particular - is another telltale sign. Whether it will be implemented in the future remains to be seen (I think? I don't keep up on the news), but playing the AH has always been a prime candidate for RMT exploitation. The cap on guildleves and the incredibly stupid cap on aetheryte for traveling are other countermeasures, it would seem. I don't know enough about the game anymore (only played beta) to list more, but I am sure there are more.

[Dooom]

Actually it shows where they started from. Nothing else.

Jesus Christ this is making my head hurt. Shit didn't get fixed from beta up until after retail release, and you're trying to say SE isn't slow? The lack of fixes between beta and now has everything to do with the discussion at hand.

[Eaglestrike]

Wow has been out for 6 yrs with basically no story at all.

Are you serious? What the fuck are you smoking?

Just because there are a number of people that don't care about a storyline doesn't mean the storyline doesn't exist. There are LOTS of people in FFXI that didn't give a shit about the story, I was actually the only one of my friends who paid any attention to what was going on and I'd be explaining/repeating shit to them since they didn't know wtf was going on.

Most of the raids in WoW have a storyline involved in them. Hell, most of the instances have stories to them:
Ragefire Chasm - The burning Legion (the almighty enemy trying to take over Azeroth) has a stronghold beneath Orgimmar, go get rid of them.
Wailing Caverns - A powerful Druid has been taken over by the emerald nightmare while attempting to use the emerald dream to restore lushness to the Barrens, this has caused monsters to take over and come out. Clear the area and escort another druid that can go wake him up.
Shadowfang Keep - The Archmage Arugal has taken over a stronghold and turned humans into Worgen, take him out and stop him. Note: This is getting updated with Cataclysm because it directly relates to the Worgen coming to be a playable race.

Those are just the first three instances (for horde)

Another low level one: Deadmines

The Defias Brotherhood, angry about mistreatment during one of the big wars, who actually betrayed the humans in one war (think they were a part of the human forces in war 1/2, then Varian didn't pay them or some shit and they took over most of Westfall during war 3 as pissed off) are headquartered in the Deadmines. The entire Westfall storyline, which has existed since vanilla WoW, is about fighting the Defias, thinning their ranks, finding out where they're stationed and going in there and taking out their leader.

Pretty sure all that shit right there, which is only what you can experience in the first 20 levels, is far more involved than "Get me 3 beehive chips" or "Get me a treant bulb during 6:00-12:00!"

[Ksandra]

wow stories

100% true fax. On top of that the fucking lore is so intertwined it's like the Tudors n' shit. Most of the major characters are from the previous warcraft games. Tbh I never paid any attention to the lore until I played with my husband. He played all 3 Warcrafts tons of times so everywhere we went he was always explaining who characters were and what they did etc.


What is WoW's failing (which they've started to fix since WotLK) is that it's not as "in your face" as say ffxi was. Missions definitely make you see more of the story than doing quests in WoW only because there isn't as much an incentive to do quests in WoW than there is to do missions in FFXI. FFXI forces the story on you, WoW gives you the option. So of course those that don't do the option think there's no story.

[Tomino]

All I have to say is that it took me 1 hour, 60 minutes, to craft a rank6 (or something like that) Hempen Doublet. And that was because I had a few pieces already done, like Strap and Sleeves. I can not find a way, any way, to justify that. There were simply so much sub-parts that, combined with the unbelievable UI lag, turn a single item into a terrible experience.
My original goal was to make two for me and my friend but really, I really couldnt force me to do so by spending another 80 minutes just to make a virtual, low level, item.

Oh and for the records, it took me like 3 weeks of "casual" leves to level the 3 crafts that were needed for said recipe.

I really don't know what kind of progression or either game this is. I don't know how players are supposed to enjoy crafting (which is about 1/3 of the whole game actually) when each single synth take 1 minute, it requires 8 webpages for sub-recipes and that one high-rank piece that you're gonna look after browsing bazzars at a pace of 30 sec each.

[Correction]

Are you serious? What the fuck are you smoking?

Don't feed CasualPlayer. :D

[Eaglestrike]

Don't feed CasualPlayer. :D

Meh, I enjoy going off on tangents and arguing a point. Anyone on Shiva can tell you that, hah.

[BlackheartX]

Cool story, except Cata isn't released yet? Your argument is that a game that was devoid of storyline for several years is ok now because it will finally have some in a future expansion? Story in ffxiv is already better than hodir quest line and I'm only 5 missions in. (I did like icecrown though)

Sometimes I just wonder how people can say things like this and believe them. Quick question "What is the story in FFXIV and how does it relate to the quest at all since were talking about quest lines here? Where is the story tie in to me killing the same mob (not even a reskin) over and over have to do with the storyline?... guess what nothing.

[person2007]

People are still taking Casualplayer seriously?

haha

[Lordender]

Can't wait until the white knights on here start getting banned, there is nothing to defend here, the game is one of the worst ever created and without a doubt the worse MMO i've played over the many years.

[Lucavi]

Just posted to respond to this little gem.

Any examples? Have they even released a game in the condition XIV is in to at least give a proper comparison of how they 'fixed' it so much faster than what SE is doing here?.

Why would they? They aren't retarded. They like making money and having successful games. Yes, lets test a company by having them release a completely shitty game a full year (or more!) ahead of when its ready, just so we can see how fast they can perform damage control. Brilliant. Sounds like a new winning reality TV show to me! Someone call Sterger!

I can't believe you even posted that. Your tank must be running on empty. You should take a few days off to recharge.

[Knightmare]

FFXIV is the greatest game ever. You guys are just hating on how innovative and awesome it is. SE is actually listening to its player base and maybe in a couple months we'll be able to sort our inventory. Also WoW sucks, I mean does anyone even play that shitty game.

To be serious though, the game needs regular quests given by npc's that help build the storyline. It needs to force interaction between players, like there should have been a Halloween event that forced ppl to trade items or form parties. The classes all feel the same besides the obvious distinction between DoL, DoW, and DoW. The only thing I find fun and the only reason I play is because I like mini-game for mining and botany.

[Charismatic]

Yes, lets test a company by having them release a completely shitty game a full year (or more!) ahead of when its ready, just so we can see how fast they can perform damage control. Brilliant. Sounds like a new winning reality TV show to me! Someone call Sterger!

Fund it

[Kaylia]

Actually somewhat agree with a couple of your points. Storyline being broken up the way it is isn't the best form of storytelling and probably would've improved from immersion into general gameplay.
Having said that when SE made a game that stripped everything away but the storyline people complained. (I'm talking about FFXIII)

But story is story to me doesn't matter if its jrpg wrpg a good story is a good story. My point wasn't about that. Wow has been out for 6 yrs with basically no story at all. Ffxi had some great stories (even zilart was decent) where wow is just now releasing a game with story. Ffxiv has been out for 1 Mon. and already has a heavy emphasis on the storyline.

You strike me as someone who really enjoys wow and was going to play cata regardless of how ffxiv played at release. While I think some of your opinions are valid most seem to be heavily biased towards blizzard and completely irrational as far as the scope and design of ffxiv.

You seem to be more concerned with ensuring that people cancel their ffxiv subs (maybe so they'll join u in cata?) than anything else. I mean what other reason do you have to continue to post about a game you are so dissatisfied with?

Story is story, sure. If you want emotionally fleshed characters,and plot twist, go with FF. My point is that WoW's world make the player more and more involved with its quests. They are trying to make you feel that this area is at war, that there is an impending doom, that a gigantic beast is about to wake up...etc I agree it's not story the way you mean it, but it can be interesting as well. How immersive the game is matter just as much as the story imo, because they serve the same purposes. I really wish FFXIV would include both, but the immersion is simply not there. I'm not trying to make a wow vs ff argument here, that's just how I feel and what I like about both worlds.


Why am I posting here? Because I enjoy the train wreck. I had many arguments early in the beta with resident white knight, and seeing the game fail so hard make me happy since it prove my points. It has nothing to do with WoW, I simply did not want ffxiv to take huge step backward. Both WoW and FFXI improved many things over the years....why do we have to go back 10 years in the past? I'm not talking about the amount of contents alone, but there is smalls thing that should have been planned right from the start that are simply missing.


What I wanted was a Final fantasy game that is played online. Something along the line of FFXII would be perfect, just slow down the leveling and make gears more difficult to obtains, and you easily have 500 hours worth of involving gameplay that lead to a typical mmo endgame once you complete the story. There was no reason to make xping a task on its own in FFXIV. No one enjoy it. I would much rather fight my way through a dungeon as I get xp and level, and be rewarded with the story at the end.

Never seen it happen, but theoretically that could be possible.

And I say theoretically because let's face it, at some point throwing more money at the dev team isn't going to make the dev process any faster.

They will be so slow to fix most issue these same issue will eventually become features a few years away from now. That's what they did in FFXI.


People were contents when the updates added a popular shortcut (teleport to sky) and 10 more inventory spaces.

[Lucavi]

Fund it

We can throw it on Sundance or TNT, because They. Know. Drama.

[Tomino]

Why am I posting here? Because I enjoy the train wreck. I had many arguments early in the beta with resident white knight, and seeing the game fail so hard make me happy since it prove my points.

An usual win-win strategy... It's easy to bash something because once it's out, if it turns out beautifully no one will ever remeber what your critics were about. If it fails, like XIV, you get your gold trophy. There is so little skill involved in sitting there and criticize, sorry. (Not meant as a persona attack tho)

As for the game, I agree with the aforementioned idea that they are aiming for those few people who would accept being punched in the ball to later become Eorzea's billionaries by having max crafts once the PS3 version is out. The fixes will come down slowly, you'll eventually got auto-sort feature but you'll be able to massively fap once the players start coming and you can craft everything for them.