FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Hyan]

Because it's a non-loot based game, most people do that, aye?

Whether mount is a 'loot' or not, though.. hm, well if it's a cosmetic thing I agree.

[Ksandra]

Because it's a non-loot based game, most people do that, aye?

Whether mount is a 'loot' or not, though.. hm, well if it's a cosmetic thing I agree.

ya it's purely a cosmetic and a bragging type thing as the mount is rare. Also, it is also technically an achievement thing. There is an achievement that you get for owning 100 mounts, so a lot of people do it just to get closer to finishing that (I have a friend trying to finish it atm he's up to like 83 I think).


I never wanted it though as it is a raven mount that can't even fly, so it's not even a good mount.

[Lucavi]

An usual win-win strategy... It's easy to bash something because once it's out, if it turns out beautifully no one will ever remeber what your critics were about. If it fails, like XIV, you get your gold trophy. There is so little skill involved in sitting there and criticize, sorry. (Not meant as a persona attack tho)

What about those who saw the writing on the wall in Alpha/Beta and bashed it then? Do they get the super special trophy? You make it sound as if it was so hard to see that this game wasn't ready for launch, and that it was going to be flawed. Just about everyone knew this.

I guess you're going to be giving out a lot of trophies.

[Hyan]

I see. Cosmetic things like that are good.. I've never understood the point of achievements though.

Although getting the title for saving astral candy was something like that I guess.

But it still sounds highly unlikely that the majority of people would do that. Of course achievements might have more value to other people than to me.

[Ksandra]

I see. Cosmetic things like that are good.. I've never understood the point of achievements though.

Although getting the title for saving astral candy was something like that I guess.

But it still sounds highly unlikely that the majority of people would do that. Of course achievements might have more value to other people than to me.

not everyone is into achievements, but I would say the majority is in some way or another. For me I don't care so much about pve achievements, but I do about pvp ones. If you look at the user Krye for his sig on the forums he got a title/mount recently for basically finishing all achievements for this pvp season (bastard -.-)


also in cata they are bringing back pvp titles (fuck ya) so that brings another thing to the game to get (more you kill vs. die the higher your rank).

[Hyan]

Hmm, on the other hand there are so many people who care about 360 achievements and ps3 trophies that I shouldn't be surprised..

Well, more power to them o=

[Tomino]

What about those who saw the writing on the wall in Alpha/Beta and bashed it then? Do they get the super special trophy? You make it sound as if it was so hard to see that this game wasn't ready for launch, and that it was going to be flawed. Just about everyone knew this.

Sorry but you either missed my point, or I wrote it down wrong.
I was answering a line about "I come here writing about a game I dont play anymore as I enjoy reading how right I was", to which I replied that, usually, the "hater" position is much more safer and inclined to satisfaction when it comes to bash upcoming, hyped game. Not that huge deal, anyway.

As for the game, aside for the already criticized UI, lag, flaws and whatever, I'd like to add how the game's "flow" is completely wrong. Not something they will ever be able to tweak or fix. What am I referring to?
Well, it looks like they played 30 mins into WoW or GW, saw what a storytelling-driven start-up was about and then pasted it in front of their 10 years old level design.
So I arrive to Limsa, there is this great introduction, misteries around my character and I'm about to prove myself. First mission is properly done, it takes me around town so I become familiar with the place and NPCs. Then I flex my muscle to help my cities out and then.. then it's done.
I can only go out town, kill moles for weeks after weeks so that one day I can have a shred of plot once again. There's 2 other cities but it would had been to much of a design extravaganza to let me experience their story too.

Sure, FFXI was alike but, damn, it was designed TEN YEARS ago. Really, couldnt they think of anything else besides daily quest and party grind? It's 2010 and many games proved how immersive level design can be when you actually toy with it.

[Hyan]

I hope one of those games with immersive level design isn't GW.

If so, lol

[hagun]

[QUOTE=CasualPlayer;4203054]The problem? Like you mentioned WoWs lore appeals to people who played the original games 20 years ago. If you aren't one of those people the story means nothing. Also betting the majority of wow players aren't old enough to remember anything before wow 3.(I'm looking at you Selena Gomez). /QUOTE]

This is wrong. You don't need any background on the Warcraft game to actually enjoy or care about the WoW storyline. All you have to do is actually read as you progress the game and you'll get a feel for it and then soon get immersed in it if you care. I never touched the old Warcraft games and I enjoy the lore of WoW tremendously. Sometimes it's like reading a George R.R. Martin or Raymond E. Feist book. It gets pretty intense.

[Shade]

But seriously, I agree with you here. I had a bunch of guidies who were hyped about the games. I warned them after playing the beta, but they got it anyway...now they think they were scammed. The only one who are enduring it are the people who are trying to relive their FFXI "good years". However, the future of the game doesnt look that good, and I think everyone will come to this realisation sooner or later.

Heh, I kinda feel like we were scammed, what with the big conference/announcement between open beta and final release. Where they showed big fancy pictures of group crafting and talked alot about improvements and NMs and even little things like more hairstyle choices (or maybe not a little thing, since 90% of current choices are recycled FFXI do's). Many people got the impression that this was stuff we would be seeing SOON... like, at release.

Also someone help me with the context of the current Blizzard vs. SE debate. In between all the nitpicking about what constitutes an instance, and whether getting Achievements are fun for some or for all, is someone's position that SE is actually... doing a good job? A better job? That releasing a current gen title which is less fun and less well designed than your previous, now a decade old title is cool?

[Hyan]

That releasing a current gen title which is less fun and less well designed than your previous, now a decade old title is cool?

False.

[Shade]

False.

Reaaalllllly.

[Hyan]

Well, depends!

NA release or the real release? If the former, I agree with you, but it's a silly comparison.

[Tomino]

I hope one of those games with immersive level design isn't GW.

It's RPG level design we're talking about here, so I dont expect light/mirrors minigames, oscillating platform or, even, WoW action-based boss strategies. I'm asking for a progression path that makes me feel part of the storyline, something I could excuse past-gen MMOs for not having but that I can't overlook now.

An MMO RPG needs to keep things happening. It's ok to come to an halt when it comes to endgame (or lack of it) but there is nothing I can say to defend the fact I've been playing (casually) for about a whole month and.. well, nothing changed at all.
In GW, the plot went steadily forward with many change in the scenery. In WoW players move from starting, peaceful zones to war-torned ones. Cities becomes camps or even refugee spots. You, as an adventurer, feels that you once needed walls to protect you but now you don't. It helps creating the idea of character grow (besides stats or numbers).

In FF14, I didn't move forward because maps are city-centered, ok.
There's camps but they are a poor excuse for a hub, they're basically all the same with some NPCs and absolutely no story attached. What's the difference between Bloodshore or Skull Valley exactly? They're just "gas stations" on the road.

In FF11 or old-gen MMORPS, maps were basically a grind environment. Modern games worked to properly attach a story to that and that worked charms to help players immerse within the game world. FF14 does nothing like that, it has its major plot and it has moles, end of story.

[Hyan]

That pretty much sounds like a problem with lack of content to me, I don't understand how you came into this conclusion:

Not something they will ever be able to tweak or fix.

The story is set up right now in a way that nothing is happening. Do you think this will be the case when Beastmen strongholds and Ishgard open up?

[Shade]

Well, depends!

NA release or the real release? If the former, I agree with you, but it's a silly comparison.

FFXI? Just, generally. I don't see why it's silly.

Is it ever a good idea to make design/gameplay/marketing decisions based on 10 year old information? Is it fair to ask that we should judge them on 2001 expectations just because they are pretending that's the year we live in? Cause I don't know about you but my calender says 2010.

How about a user interface that is LESS user friendly, less intuitive, and slower in pretty much every conceivable way than any UI either Square or Enix has ever made in their entire gaming careers? You would think that a functional UI would not be too much to ask from a company with their combined pedigree. It's kind of important, it's the window through with the player experiences the game. Or what about a class system that encourages multitasking but an inventory system that discourages it? It's just kind of shockingly mishandled.

[Hyan]

FFXI? Just, generally. I don't see why it's silly.

Because the two releases have a year and a half of updates between them.

Is it fair to ask that we should judge them on 2001 expectations just because they are pretending that's the year we live in? Cause I don't know about you but my calender says 2010.

That's not what I'm talking about.

And yes, I'm nitpicking. That's what I do :D.

[Tomino]

Let me explain it a little more:

Game has 50 ranks by now, with a slow paced levelling which means you need weeks and weeks to attain, say, rank 30.
So, if they plan to release beastmen and any kind of plot shaking in the future, then in my opinion a level 50 cap is way too high. Even if the final goal within years will be rank 100, it's absurd to let players become so strong without any real event attached to it.

Rank 10 out of 50 should feel like a nice accomplishment. In WoW, you usually reach the main city and have your ways open to the world, that's pretty nice the first time you play the game. Not to mention, in FF14 rank10 is actually rank10x3 since a lot of RPG players are levelling a few classes together for output purposes.

Rank 20? I should feel great to reach that, not simply "30 levels more to cap", it doesnt give any vibration that way. Either make me able to wear something I couldnt, give me a chocobo pass or whatever but please, find a way to reward all the time I spend on crabs.

People in my shell are even higher and guess what? They do Leves, the party grind, end of story. The gameplay doesn't evolve at all, the only thing that is increasing is a number next to my portrait.


Why I said it wont be fixed? Because it's part of the level design, and since it so closely resemble 11, I take there won't be any kind of event until the cap is set. NM Leves will simply be FF14's BCNM, something you spam for items or cash.

[Shade]

Because the two releases have a year and a half of updates between them.



That's not what I'm talking about.

And yes, I'm nitpicking. That's what I do :D.

Haha. I like how you replied to my post only to refute a point I didn't actually bring up.

[Hyan]

Actually, FFXI's level design wasn't that badly paced in my opinion at least. The missions could have come at more steady intervals but at level 10 or so you ventured out to the konschtat/la theine, 20 jeuno, at which point you got choco pass, 25 was some kazham key hunting and shadow dragon, 30 you could unlock advanced jobs, 40-50 was a bit lame but there was stuff like airship pass AF1 and shit.

I don't think they'll focus on just rank 50 content either way, more content for the ranks in between would work much better for the time being imo. As you said the game needs more this kind of thing, and I agree. I think it's unlikely that they'll ram more class quests to the 50-range until level cap is raised anyway.

Haha. I like how you replied to my post only to refute a point I didn't actually bring up.

Actually, I can rather easily make an argument that FFXI when released was less fun and less well designed than XIV in it's current state, but do we want to go there!?