FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Kaylia]

Absolutely disagree. Ffxiv won't become the colossal success that wow is no. But it certainly isn't going to die and will be much more of a success than its predecessor. From an NA standpoint my reasons for this feeling are explained in my response to lordenders post.

Looking through SEs glasses though, in order to be a success they just need around 500k+ subs. If the bottom line falls out in NA and EU, they've still got JP. Also the game hasn't released in China yet, that's 1 billion people of untapped market. Not to mention ffxiv will get a second worldwide release in March.

Do you win all your arguments this way?

Die? Doubt so. However, I seriously doubt it will be more successful than FFXI. I dont see it averaging much more than 100k players with the satisfaction of the userbase. PS3 release might prove me wrong, but we will see.

[Hyan]

If it gets good someday, it depends on their approach imo. They could pay the biggest gaming sites to do a re-review for the first expansion (if PS3 review isn't favorable). There's ways it could pick up (word of mouth), but its a long road from here.

[CasualPlayer]

Die? Doubt so. However, I seriously doubt it will be more successful than FFXI. I dont see it averaging much more than 100k players with the satisfaction of the userbase. PS3 release might prove me wrong, but we will see.

Fair enough.

[Kaylia]

If it gets good someday, it depends on their approach imo. They could pay the biggest gaming sites to do a re-review for the first expansion (if PS3 review isn't favorable). There's ways it could pick up (word of mouth), but its a long road from here.

Most mmo that failled horribly in the past turned out to be decent after one year or two, but they arent luring people back. FF can count on its brand, and ps3 release, but it's a pretty big assumption to say it will be enough to bring back people.

[Hyan]

Yes, that makes sense. That's why SE should not make their game like those 10 billion other mmo's. It has to stand out, or it'll be forgotten.

Although which mmo is worth to play these days? I tried AoC, it was shit, Vanguard, WAR, Aion, all boring and lame.

Only XI and WoW were interesting enough..

[CasualPlayer]

Yes, that makes sense. That's why SE should not make their game like those 10 billion other mmo's. It has to stand out, or it'll be forgotten.

Although which mmo is worth to play these days? I tried AoC, it was shit, Vanguard, WAR, Aion, all boring and lame.

Only XI and WoW were interesting enough..

I made this point before. I don't think anything is coming out soon enough either to threaten SE before they fix all the bugs. (cata doesn't count, ppl that like wow are going to play it regardless.)

[Kaylia]

Yes, that makes sense. That's why SE should not make their game like those 10 billion other mmo's. It has to stand out, or it'll be forgotten.

Although which mmo is worth to play these days? I tried AoC, it was shit, Vanguard, WAR, Aion, all boring and lame.

Only XI and WoW were interesting enough..

If I were you, I would at least try to play WoW for 3 months (enough to do everything and try some endgame). Hell, if you start now, you will even get to see the transition to cataclysm.

I dont know which mmo deserved to be played. Right now, most WoW-clones are inferior to wow. While they are playable, you might as well just play WoW. FFXI is fine, but probably hard for a new players to pick atm (i cant imagine how painful it must be to find party on low population server).

If I had to pick another mmo, I would probably go back to ultima online. It was the shit back then, and did many thing that were rarely attempted since then (like buying houses). Starwars Galaxy was probably the closest thing to it, but it failled horribly.

[Hyan]

If they want to build their playerbase out of the pool of MMO players, the game will flop for sure.

They should go after their fanboys (on the PS3) instead.

If I were you, I would at least try to play WoW for 3 months (enough to do everything and try some endgame). Hell, if you start now, you will even get to see the transition to cataclysm, which is pretty nice.

I'm considering it. I just need to learn how to play in a group, because I won't make it to endgame alone. Cataclysm seems interesting for someone like me indeed.

Right now, most WoW-clones are inferior to wow. While they are playable, you might as well just play WoW.

Yeah thats exactly what I'm thinking.

[Kaylia]

If they want to build their playerbase out of the pool of MMO players, the game will flop for sure.

They should go after their fanboys (on the PS3) instead.

If I was directing the project, I would have designed the game for the the final fantasy fanbase. Basically, make a story driven experience (that can be done solo or as a team), that eventually open up to an endgame. It would ease the grind, and make the game much easier to balance, since leveling would be mostly trivial.

People would probably reach max level within a month, but who cares, the time spent at max level in a succesful mmo is infinitly longer than the time spent leveling.

I'm considering it. I just need to learn how to play in a group, because I won't make it to endgame alone. Cataclysm seems interesting for someone like me indeed.

If you're a completionist, enjoyed Diablo gameplay, and played warcraft series, you will probably reach max level alone without even noticing (~100h online, unless you tend to get sidetracked a lot). That's how easy it is to level. If you're talkative like I was, you might end up duoing with a bunch of random people for quests, but thats up to you.

To this quests grind, add the occasional battlegrounds (they can be fun, even if you don't like your average pvp), and random dungeon (you're looking at 20 dungeons for the first 60 levels, and 10 more per expansion after), and you wont run out of contents to do. The only time it ever feel like a grind is when you get 2 or 3 shitty quests in a row that takes 10 minutes to complete each.

Maybe I'm trying to make it sound more fun than it actually is...I mean, I did get bored at times (the quests and area for lvl 1-60 arent great), but I still had a lot of fun exploring the world on my first character.

[Hyan]

If I was directing the project, I would have designed the game for the the final fantasy fanbase. Basically, make a story driven experience (that can be done solo or as a team), that eventually open up to an endgame. It would ease the grind, and make the game much easier to balance.

People would probably reach max level within a month, but who cares, the time spent at max level in a succesful mmo is infinitly longer than the time spent leveling.

I'd have made it more like Phantasy Star-series, I think online RPG with sub fee would be easier for FF fans to accept. Well, what is done is done.

To this quest grind, add the occasional battlegrounds (they can be fun, even if you don't like your average pvp), and random dungeon (you're looking at 20 dungeons for the first 60 levels, and 10 more per expansion after), and you wont run out of contents to do. The only time it ever feel like a grind is when you get 2 or 3 shitty quests in a row that takes 10 minutes to complete each.

Maybe I'm trying to make it sound more fun than it actually is...I mean, I did get bored at times (the quests and area for lvl 1-60 arent great), but I still had a lot of fun exploring the world on my first character.

Can I do the dungeons for exp or just loot?

[CasualPlayer]

I'd have made it more like Phantasy Star-series, I think online RPG with sub fee would be easier for FF fans to accept. Well, what is done is done.

How would this even be possible? An offline rpg centers around a single player, its singular nature is the opposite of player interaction an mmo tries to accomplish. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean. Has an mmo ever accomplished this and if so which one(s)?

[Eaglestrike]

Can I do the dungeons for exp or just loot?

Dungeons offer exp from killing mobs, loot from killing mobs as well as quests for more than the normal exp for that level to complete.

[Hyan]

Phantasy Star Online did it pretty well for it's time imo. I wouldn't call it an mmo.

Dungeons offer exp from killing mobs, loot from killing mobs as well as quests for more than the normal exp for that level to complete.

Sounds good, ty.

[Kaylia]

I'd have made it more like Phantasy Star-series, I think online RPG with sub fee would be easier for FF fans to accept. Well, what is done is done.

I only played the first one for 20-30hours, it's hard to comment. The gameplay was kinda nice, but 4 dungeons wasnt enough, and I dont remember any story. I think the overall idea fit my visions of a online FF though. The only grind you need is the one in your way when you beat the story/stage/dungeon, but i still want something I can call a "world".

Can I do the dungeons for exp or just loot?

There was no "dungeon finder" back in my days, but as far as I know, the xp is on par with questing if you get an average group, and there is loot invoved. Your group occasionaly suffer from retardation (remember that guys in FFXI who would die 5 times trying to reach the xp camp? Well, he plays WoW too), but it's very possible to level exclusively with random dungeon. However, I wouldnt do that since you miss out on a bunch of potentially interesting stuff.


The "seek time" is 15min for dps, 2-3min for healer and instant for tank, so you might not be able to do it nonstop depending of your class/spec, but you're teleported back to your previous location after one...so you can go back to whatever you were doing before. It's the same deal with battleground, takes 10-15 minutes usually to get in one, and you will get 10-20% of your level if you get a good run.

[Lucavi]

If you didn't know anything about the systems of WoW work, Hyan, how the hell could you make the assertion that WoW wasn't some kind of "true" MMORPG, or whatever the hell your strange version of a "true" anything is?

[Correction]

The point of my post was that the average person won't pay attention to the story of wow because of how its told vs. how story is relayed in ff.

If 12 million people played FFXI or FFXIV an equal number would ignore the story/lore going on there, as well. The problem isn't WoW it's how people choose to play MMOS. But good job pointing out that people have short attention spans, it's only something most of us figured out ten years ago.

You aren't even making a point, you're just trolling for attention. Don't play the 'you can't refute my argument' card when you haven't been making a valid argument since you joined the boards.

[Kaylia]

@Lucavi
In Hyan defense, no mmorpg that was made in the last 10 years fall in his description,and this include WoW, FFXI and XIV. The only game that fit it are Starwars galaxy and ultima online (or at least, the only one i know about).

[Hyan]

Who said I didn't know anything? During the 3 times I've tried to get into it I got all the info I needed about the nature of the game. Enough to make my assertions that is.

And, of course my friends were into it a lot back in the day.

It's not a very complex game to figure out.

In Hyan defense, no mmorpg that was made in the last 10 years fall in his "true mmorpg" description, and that include WoW.

Very few have been made indeed.

[Kaylia]

Who said I didn't know anything? During the 3 times I've tried to get into it I got all the info I needed about the nature of the game. Enough to make my assertions that is.

I would say you havent tried WoW if you never reached the outland. Old world content is subpar, and thats why they are about to nuke it completely.


And no mmo is hard to figure out, the beauty is in the details, and how it is executed. Just like you couldnt explain exactly how challenging salvage at someone who hasnt played FFXI, it would be hard for someone who hasnt played WoW to understand what it is to raid a new instance with hard bosses.

Very few have been made indeed.

And by few, I mean one. I really cant think of anything outside SW galaxy.


I dont think its possible to have a sandbox feel, with an involving story/contents thought. You can have one or the other, but both at the same time is conflicting.

[Lucavi]

@Lucavi
In Hyan defense, no mmorpg that was made in the last 10 years fall in his description,and this include WoW, FFXI and XIV. The only game that fit it are Starwars galaxy and ultima online (or at least, the only one i know about).

That's just the point. They aren't coming back, so why keep pining for something that's dead and gone? Money determines the future, and there's more money in doing it in the modern style, which is why everyone keeps trying to copy/surpass WoW.

It makes no sense to continue to hold everything to the standards of a limited and dead genre. Its talking simply to hear one's own words at this point.