FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Dooom]

Hmph, forum seems to have eaten my post.

I don't understand how the bolded is a "plus" in any way?

And at least for now, the gil & equipment rewards are 'better' than what FoV had to offer.

You don't also get teleported back to camp at the end of the FoV do you?

Because I find it annoying to have unmarked monsters running around only one player/party can fight - especially with how empty the game world is atm. I suspect that if Leves used general, normal monsters, then the game world would be more full (no way of proving it though, of course). There's already other posts in the forum complaining about the worthlessness/whatever of gear, but I will point out that FOV zones also have random equipment and material drops from chests, which were introduced at the same time. Furthermore, FoV doesn't instantly teleport you back because it's not needed. Instead, you get credits to teleport (and purchase other buffs) at a time of your own choosing.

Why are consistently crappy rewards from FoV a plus? I would have loved it if FoV occasionally rewarded me with whole pieces of equipment or fat chunks of points to spend on new abilities/traits for my desired job.

What do you think merits were? And I would much sooner have a flat bonus at the end (complete Leve, get fixed SP, yay!) rather than a potential modifier to the RNG.

Otherwise, they are entirely consistent of their exp/skill output and gil rewards, just like FoV. Since money doesn't mean a whole lot right now, they are blind to it for the most part and are looking for the bonuses.

lol, no they're not - not for levelling up. FoV offers flat exp bonuses. Leves offer Marks you may not even get.

[Hyan]

Because I find it annoying to have unmarked monsters running around only one player/party can fight - especially with how empty the game world is atm. I suspect that if Leves used general, normal monsters, then the game world would be more full (no way of proving it though, of course).

But which is more annoying- having to fight for these normal mobs due to crowded areas (or even running out of time because you couldn't find the last monster) or unmarked monsters running around?

Actually, can you specify what you mean by that first sentence?

Now that phasing has been implemented this way, I wouldn't ever go back to how things were before, really. Now this might be more annoying than it seems on paper, but if normal mobs would aggro you and your party and you had to fight them as well as the leve mobs, this would be better? At least in the dungeons or The Black Shroud that is. I think it would also "flesh out" the leves, as 6-8 mobs is kinda few in the long run considering the nature of the system...

There's already other posts in the forum complaining about the worthlessness/whatever of gear, but I will point out that FOV zones also have random equipment and material drops from chests, which were introduced at the same time. Furthermore, FoV doesn't instantly teleport you back because it's not needed. Instead, you get credits to teleport (and purchase other buffs) at a time of your own choosing.

Yeah I know.. I think the teleport cost is kinda steep though. You can't even do it all the time before you get high level enough iirc?

[miokomioko]

First off, some 1200 limit points do not even remotely compare to 1500~2000 Guild Marks. You are making quite the stretch.

Second, you completely navigated yourself around the entire point. The basic rewards of Guildleves are hardly inconsistent. The bonus rewards (guild marks, equipment, etc) are random as shit. Did Fields of Valor have any bonuses that you could even compare to this? No. You only got your once-an-hour 1k exp/gil or so. Nothing more, nothing less. The point is, people don't care about the skill/exp/gil from Guildleves anymore. Players have been tainted by the taste of Guild Marks and now don't even see gil as a reward. This is how you're probably seeing it and are now making an inaccurate comparison because you see equipment and Guild Marks as the real rewards and not a bonus. Even if inconsistency was a huge problem, the fact that there are so many leves to choose your 8 from every 36 hours drastically decreases said inconsistency by allowing you to pick and choose the ones with the rewards you want.

This is such a retarded comparison to make in the first place. Fields of Valor and Guildleves are not the same system nor concept. Fields of Valor was directly created for and catered to only players with tiny spurts of playtime. Guildleves have to do a lot more than that and cover the needs of the entire player base. Hence, the occasional bonuses added to or replacing the default gil, guardian's aspect, and faction credits.

Again, I'm not saying that Guildleves are done being tweaked in any way.

I would also argue that Guildleves' 8 cumulating attempts every 36 hours is better for sporadic/short playtimes than being limited to 1 attempt every hour. Having more than an hour of playtime sucks when you're limited to attempts/hr instead of attempts/day.

P.S. Casket drops do not count as bonus rewards as they are not even related to the actual Fields of Valor training regimes that we're talking about. They are only tied to the zones. Also, lol at comparing shitty, vanilla XI armor to items that can be received via Guildleves.

[Dooom]

But which is more annoying- having to fight for these normal mobs due to crowded areas (or even running out of time because you couldn't find the last monster) or unmarked monsters running around?

Actually, can you specify what you mean by that first sentence?

I'm sure we've all had it where you run around, find a mob which you want to fight, try and do so, only you're not allowed to because it's someone's leve mob. There's no way of telling it is without trying to fight it. And I guess we'll have to disagree on what we find more annoying. You're also assuming free-spawning mobs would lead to overcrowding and too much competition (we'll gloss over that people have been failing Leves because of monsters even failing to spawn, which is far worse than being unable to find mobs - an issue that wouldn't occur if Leves used free-spawning mobs, rather than Leve-only ones).

Yeah I know.. I think the teleport cost is kinda steep though. You can't even do it all the time before you get high level enough iirc?

No level restriction afaik. I have np with the cost, but hum hum.

The basic rewards of Guildleves are hardly inconsistent.

So the basic rewards are pointless, then - you yourself say people don't care about them, which says to me that the system has failed, as it was intended to be the main way of exping, no?

Even if inconsistency was a huge problem, the fact that there are so many leves to choose your 8 from every 36 hours drastically decreases said inconsistency by allowing you to pick and choose the ones with the rewards you want.

Sure, if you wanna burn all your anima or spend hours running from city to city. Hardly a fun choice.

Fields of Valor was directly created for and catered to only players with tiny spurts of playtime.

Again - I was under the impression this was the intention of Leves. That people now do them for the chance at a reward means the system, as it stands, is a failure imo. At least I'd know I was going to get exp from FoV when I went out to do them.

Also, lol at comparing shitty, vanilla XI armor to items that can be received via Guildleves.

Each zone has a unique r/ex item, some of which are good even at higher levels. But if you don't wanna see it as part of the discussion, then fine. Leves are still a failed system.

[Hyan]

I'm sure we've all had it where you run around, find a mob which you want to fight, try and do so, only you're not allowed to because it's someone's leve mob. There's no way of telling it is without trying to fight it. And I guess we'll have to disagree on what we find more annoying. You're also assuming free-spawning mobs would lead to overcrowding and too much competition (we'll gloss over that people have been failing Leves because of monsters even failing to spawn, which is far worse than being unable to find mobs - an issue that wouldn't occur if Leves used free-spawning mobs, rather than Leve-only ones).

As far as I know, other people's leve monsters only show to you when they are engaged. Otherwise you can't see them. Once they are engaged, they won't disappear before the leve fails or they are killed.. not 100% sure about that though?

You're also assuming free-spawning mobs would lead to overcrowding and too much competition

I have always had to compete in any game with free spawning mobs and a quest system, I don't see how it would be different here :/

(we'll gloss over that people have been failing Leves because of monsters even failing to spawn, which is far worse than being unable to find mobs - an issue that wouldn't occur if Leves used free-spawning mobs, rather than Leve-only ones).

In 90% of cases that I've seen, they just haven't understood where the mobs have spawned (in a cave, above you etc.). If there is a lot of complaints about that in the random complaints thread though, I haven't been aware of such.

[miokomioko]

Again - I was under the impression this was the intention of Leves. That people now do them for the chance at a reward means the system, as it stands, is a failure imo. At least I'd know I was going to get exp from FoV when I went out to do them.

Like I said... Guildleves have to cover the entire gamut of play styles. Fields of Valor was catering to only one. Again, it's not "a chance at a reward," it's a chance at a bonus reward that people are infatuated with. Meanwhile they are earning gil, earning faction credits towards better leves, earning exp, earning class skill points, etc. It all gets overlooked by people blinded by wanting new abilities/traits, some of the more tangible/satisfying aspects of character progression. If Fields of Valor had something comparable, everyone would have been spamming it constantly, wanting only the bonus, and then bitching about how you could only do it once each game-day. Randomly augmented equipment falls into that category, and we all know how fucking retarded that was.

I have to laugh, you are probably the first person I've heard say anything good about Rare/EX Treasure Casket items. I was pretty damn sure I was the only one in the game who even went after them (I had them all except Caract Choker). I don't recall any of them having any importance at high levels. Anyways, it was a bonus for simply killing anything in an entire zone and had nothing to do with taking part in a FoV Training Regime. It's like saying marmot pelts are a Guildleve bonus when the leve targets happen to be marmots.

[plue]

All FFXIV accomplished was make me want to try WoW. I've never tried it before, but anything would be a step up from this at this point. This whole game seems entirely pointless, and devoid of meaning.

For the people that like this game so much, what is it that you even do online?

I hate leves with a passion (most half-assed mechanic in a game ever), grinding in this game is completely broken, crafting is a pain in the ass (clicking Standard for hours, is not why I play an MMO). Why even bother logging on?

[Kylewhataru]

I'd recommend trying WoW when the expansion comes out on Dec 7, since they completely re-did all the level 1-60 areas, right now the low level areas are kind of dull.

[Skeeterxi]

All FFXIV accomplished was make me want to try WoW. I've never tried it before, but anything would be a step up from this at this point. This whole game seems entirely pointless, and devoid of meaning.

For the people that like this game so much, what is it that you even do online?

I hate leves with a passion (most half-assed mechanic in a game ever), grinding in this game is completely broken, crafting is a pain in the ass (clicking Standard for hours, is not why I play an MMO). Why even bother logging on?

Wait a couple for weeks for Cataclysm to release. They are re doing the whole leveling experience basically.

[Kaylia]

All FFXIV accomplished was make me want to try WoW. I've never tried it before, but anything would be a step up from this at this point. This whole game seems entirely pointless, and devoid of meaning.

For the people that like this game so much, what is it that you even do online?

I hate leves with a passion (most half-assed mechanic in a game ever), grinding in this game is completely broken, crafting is a pain in the ass (clicking Standard for hours, is not why I play an MMO). Why even bother logging on?

The same reason why many people play farmville, the addiction to grinding. It doesnt matter what you're playing, people just want to see number increases for a cheap sense of accomplishment. I'm not saying friends and story have no impact on people's endurance, but these aspect probably have much smaller impact than people pretend.

If you want to play WoW, now is a good time. Half of the world will be trashed early december (area flooded, city destroyed and rebuilt differently, volcano erupting...etc), and if you want to see the old area before they are gone, it's might be worth a shot.

[edit]
Actually, Lich King price will probably drop to 20$ next month, so wait for that (or stick to vanilla/free trial until then).

[miokomioko]

So this thread has devolved into WoW promotions? What the shit?

[Grey Jorildyn]

Well it is a flame thread...

[Shaskoru]

I know this is fucking unreal, but people like to play games that are fun.

[Kylewhataru]

If you want to play WoW, now is a good time. Half of the world will be trashed early december (area flooded, city destroyed and rebuilt differently, volcano erupting...etc), and if you want to see the old area before they are gone, it's might be worth a shot.

Nah, those zones are too old and just aren't up to standards, some of them have really bad questing and pacing, which was ok in 2004... not now, it will just cheapen the experience compared to the remade zones. And the remade zones in Cataclysm actually aren't that much different, sure they have new NPCs, quests, a couple of new settlements, some areas destroyed, etc. but it's not like its so different you couldn't tell its the same zone, so you're not really missing out on the old zones, since these are basically more interesting versions of the same thing.

[Riposte]

Anyone else get the feeling Market Wards are our own creation? Maybe SE saw our collective bazaar markets outside jeuno and got some ideas...

[Lordender]

Anyone else get the feeling Market Wards are our own creation? Maybe SE saw our collective bazaar markets outside jeuno and got some ideas...

The only reason why there isn't an AH is because SE was not happy about how much control the JP had on the crafting markets in FF11 by the time the NA's got the game by use of the AH. I think the same thing would happen again with the PS3 players with the 6+ month delay. I would be very surprised if there is an AH before PS3 release and more than likely they will just improve the marketwards till then.

[Riposte]

The only reason? That's only if you flat out disbelieve their comment that they wanted to make a bazaar-based economy.

[Kaylia]

Anyone else get the feeling Market Wards are our own creation? Maybe SE saw our collective bazaar markets outside jeuno and got some ideas...

With SquareEnix short term thinking, that's also what I believe. Well, this mixed with how much money they made selling mules in FFXI.

Nah, those zones are too old and just aren't up to standards, some of them have really bad questing and pacing, which was ok in 2004... not now, it will just cheapen the experience compared to the remade zones. And the remade zones in Cataclysm actually aren't that much different, sure they have new NPCs, quests, a couple of new settlements, some areas destroyed, etc. but it's not like its so different you couldn't tell its the same zone, so you're not really missing out on the old zones, since these are basically more interesting versions of the same thing.

I don't know, some region received gigantic make over (Thousand needle/tanaris region, oggrimar/durotar and a few other come to mind).

Personally, I loved exploring the world the first time, and I spent many hours revisiting everything in Cata to find the change. I can't speak for everyone obviously, but it's very satisfying, and probaly one of the time where I had the most fun in WoW. The new leveling experience is better for sure, but I would hate missing out on removed contents.

[miokomioko]

With SquareEnix short term thinking, that's also what I believe. Well, this mixed with how much money they made selling mules in FFXI.

They actually made it cheaper to do the same thing in XIV. In order to bazaar while you played in XI, you needed a separate $12/mo account, not just a $1/mo mule. $1/mo Retainers do a lot more than $1/mo mules.

[Kaylia]

That's one twisted way to see this.