FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Charismatic]

I know I'm the only one... but I think the battle system from Alpha was better. (and didn't feel like it was slapped together quickly, though it WAS buggy)
People complained about it being too slow but come on, if the bars just filled faster... it'd be faster. They didn't need to create a whole new system to make it faster.

Also, it didn't have the main thing that bugs me about the new one (such long waits between each action), even with the servers also being laggy in alpha, when I pressed the button to block with my shield and immediately after that tried to attack, it would actually do both of the actions in quick succession. Why is that different now? Jeez.

[Kaylia]

Yeah, the battle system from the alpha never had a chance. They probably gave up the idea because the UI lag wasnt going to get fixed anytime soon.

[Hyan]

SquareEnix's direction probably took a wrong turn when they decided (again) to go all out on the graphics. Good visual might help the first impression, but it's not the driving force behind a mmo. Because they are working with limited time and money, directing too much ressources in the presentation mean the gameplay itself will be hurt (smaller world, harder to implement new gameplay features, less people working on it...etc), and in the end, the game will suffer from it.

For their defense, they didn't go as far as they could have. We know how they reused some textures to create the world, we know they didn't implement as many races/clans as they were planning to, art style remains largely the same and character customization is not as expansive as it could potentially be (in Aion for example).

They could have retained the main purpose behind the presentation (create it in a long-lasting way, from an artistic standpoint.. which I think is most important in an MMO graphics wise.) while not focusing on the technical side as much as they did. That money could have been used for further optimizing the server hardware later (assuming this would be as far as they're willing to go).

unimpressive battle animations (FFXI's weapon skills and spells looked much better)

I don't think so. The most important downside is that there are no battle animations for strafing and running forward and backwards. Low level spells and skills weren't impressive in the least. Good stuff came around 55 and beyond.

It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of design choices.

And this is another thing. Had they started outside testing sooner, they would have been able to pinpoint the problems in a much earlier stage and the end result we have here would be vastly different.

I can see why they didn't do it that way, as SE tends to be secretive about their titles and I bet they wouldn't have trusted that the testers from outside could keep things under wraps. But in the end it hurt them, because they didn't see the flaws in the design before it was too late (especially from a western standpoint), and now they are on a borrowed time.

Starting testing from Alpha was a good thing, but it should have happened even sooner. I think they realize that now.

[Kurp]

What was the battle system like in Alpha?

[Lordender]

SquareEnix's direction probably took a wrong turn when they decided (again) to go all out on the graphics. Good visual might help the first impression, but it's not the driving force behind a mmo. Because they are working with limited time and money, directing too much ressources in the presentation mean the gameplay itself will be hurt (smaller world, harder to implement new gameplay features, less people working on it...etc), and in the end, the game will suffer from it. If it was a new franchise, I could understand why they did this, but they can already count on a solid fanbase that was ready to give the game a fair chance.

SE has a bunch of blind fan-girls that will continue to play and pay for this game no matter how crappy the game is. These will be the same people who are torturing themselves on this terrible, awful, completely lazy designed game who will be in the same boat on the forums just like us older XI players that waited year after year for the "magical patch" that doomed the 200+ people HNM camps and actually removed the need for LS's to bot every HNM on the planet.

Whats even worse about this game is they didn't even try to hide the laziness on the design, the leve's are as copy/pasted as the terrain is. The only good thing that will EVER come out of 14 is this: If your captured by terrorists one day in your life all you have to say is "Fuck you, you can't torture me enough because I attained level 50 on FFXIV with random shit covered banana splits with sprinkles of peanuts on top and it didn't phase me.

[Hyan]

SE has a bunch of blind fan-girls that will continue to play and pay for this game no matter how crappy the game is.

Fortunately there is also a healthy amount of haters to even it all out in the end!

But interestingly enough the fanboys are usually the biggest haters. It is fascinating.

[Tomino]

But interestingly enough the fanboys are usually the biggest haters. It is fascinating.

It's kinda logic if you think about it tho.
It's when you clearly understand that the authors you always placed your bets on are basically sitting on their former glory, and your own fanboyism, not really caring about your expectations as long as you keep spending your money.

It happens all the time with writers, comics, music, movies, etc. I don't think I'm saying anything new here.

[Hyan]

I don't know how this could be even avoided.

They made what, 10 games using the same strategy over and over again (gimmicks aside)? That can't last forever. But the fanbase you created during those times is inevitably going to be pissed when you start changing things more or less drastically.

Should they have started doing it sooner? I think so. The SE I know and the FF I know is 'always changing'. I like it that way. But I started with FFX, so obviously I'm not like the rest of you.

[Riposte]

Question: In FFXIV, where does your character sleep?

[vadre]

Answer: Turns out they don't need to sleep, they're already in the NIGHTMARE.

[Vilmos]

http://www.1up.com/news/square-enix-...ales-forecasts

ZOMG!

Is anyone really surprised by this?

[sruon]

What was the battle system like in Alpha?

I really don't remember, but like... you had a 5 segment ATB bar and each actions had a set cost and I think you could queue stuff, don't really remember... but I feel like the guy above, maybe it'd have been better than button smashing.

[Lucavi]

^ You basically had an action bar that had multiple segments, without the ability to que multiple attacks. When an attack was selected, the bar began to charge, with additional effects being granted the higher the bar charged. Unfortunately, shit didn't work right so you really didn't see any benefit to actually charging your attacks, plus it bogged down combat with even more slowdown since people that were trying to play "realistically" and "tactically" would wind up attacking like once every 7 seconds. It made an already slow game even slower.

I remember being completely shocked at the speed turnaround when the P1 beta opened up, because being able to hammer the mob with 3-4 rapid attacks was completely foreign after having to wait like 2-3 seconds between each thrust of a lance.

Alpha had sweet armor, though, so it was badass and made up for it.

[Yoli]

I don't think so. The most important downside is that there are no battle animations for strafing and running forward and backwards. Low level spells and skills weren't impressive in the least. Good stuff came around 55 and beyond.

As far as weapon skills go, I think kaylia's right. The sort of... "empty" weapon skills were one of the first things I noticed here. And how so many of them are essentially the same also (Up to level 25ish, at least). It's not really comparing early weapon skills here versus late ones on xi (you basically get the wheeling thrust animation at lv.... 5 here? or so?), it's just that they have a really faded feel in 14. Red Lotus here was the first one I noticed it on, since I compared that directly to red lotus in xi, but weapon skills in general I think received this treatment.

I think it was partially a conscious decision. Weapon skills in xi were more "special", you had to save up a whole bunch of TP before you got to use one. Here you can spam several back to back. I guess that sort of underlying regularity might have been in the minds of the designers (and I agree, it would be odd to have elaborate splashy skills being spammed on screen every second).

I'm still playing though, if not as much as I could. If I can handle the other stuff, what's a bad WS animation or two.

[BlackheartX]

http://www.1up.com/news/square-enix-...ales-forecasts

ZOMG!

Is anyone really surprised by this?

Only thing I want from SE is to not strike out by releasing another POS in the name of Deus Ex. The sequel was enough don't make it worse.

[Katlan]

I liked the battle system from beta1 better then retail, least then you didn't have to click twice for everything casting related... killing the fluidity of casters.

[shadee]

SE "official player" experiences revealed as fake

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...889290#3889290

Sooo SE had setup a marketing campaign using supposed popular names in Japan to play the game and get their thoughts. They were dubbed the "official players". Along came the player history update. There's an example of one of these people logging onto the game ONCE, then writing about her experiences for months to come. This is just fucking pathetic. Adding insult to injury.

Reminds me of "The Knights Tale" fake critic review from Sony... They got sued for 1.5 mil over it. SE should take it up the ass as well for pulling shit like this. Click on the link to read more.

[miokomioko]

No other companies constantly do this. No way no how. No siree bob. Impossible.

Fuckin' standard issue marketing bullshit. It's not fraud or false advertising or anything else that matters.

[Kaylia]

Are you defending this practice Mioko?

[miokomioko]

Did I defend it?