FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Hyan]

First I'm hearing of this, source?

This is from Elmer's Blog:

On the first day of service, there were so many access requests that the servers were down, and disconnects were common. This was completely fixed by May 19. Due to the loss of service, free play was extended past the end of May until the end of June.

http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=157

[Charismatic]

This is from Elmer's Blog:



http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=157

Well, thanks... though obviously that's not even the same sort of situation one bit.
EDIT: For some reason I thought you had some meaningful reason for bringing up the FFXI free trial extension... shame on me.

[Riposte]

I think it had to do with server downtime.

[Charismatic]

Yeah, technical issues and game content issues are two totally different things. Online RPGs having server issues at launch was really not an abnormal thing at the time... I assumed he meant FFXI had content issues that made the company want to save face by extending the free month. Completely different story here.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of one single MMO I played before FFXI that didn't have server issues around launch (even after, actually). I'm sure there's some that existed but I swear it didn't seem like the norm at the time.

That's just seemingly the nature of the beast.

[Hyan]

Well, thanks... though obviously that's not even the same sort of situation one bit.
EDIT: For some reason I thought you had some meaningful reason for bringing up the FFXI free trial extension... shame on me.

Of course it isn't, which makes people who keep saying "SE didn't learn from their past mistakes" even more ridiculous.

But the point stands. The game was not in a condition to be released in. This sort of shit kept happening past May 19th, but no more free extensions were given. Granted, the Japanese took the beatings without saying a damn thing. They shouldn't have.

I assumed he meant FFXI had content issues that made the company want to save face by extending the free month.

Oh you bet it had those too. Just not worth extending the free month even further, just Wada stating "Solly guys".

lol. Actually Wada blamed the players.

[Lucavi]

I wonder if Tanaka will get sacked over all of this negative press. It mostly his failure, as a producer. However it is a Japanese studio and he has been there a long time. But on the other hand SE has the poorest turnover rate and Wada has shown his interest in replacing the old guys with new, young people.

All I can hear in my head right now is the countless references in Japanese media to the phrase:

"How are you going to take responsibility for this?"

I swear, they say that phrase all the time. No matter what I'm reading or watching, I seem to see/hear it at least once, whether it be from businessmen, bullies/gangs/pirates, or from women talking to men.


@Hyan: The Japanese players took all kinds of beatings from their own devs back then, and even so, they were quick to counter with the "at least NA games are worse!" schpeal. It looks like they've finally grown a collective pair this time around, though, as even I am surprised at the sheer ferocity in which they've attacked their precious Nippon Developers and game. It seems that the "2010" concept that so many defenders of the game can't fully grasp is resonating with Japanese players.

Or maybe the entire world just has less patience nowadays. I dunno. It's probably human nature. It -should- be human nature. "Fool me once..."

[Tomino]

Or maybe the entire world just has less patience nowadays.

this, actually.
There are simply too much opinions being written on the internet all the time, too much buzz for anything and, also, way to much titles one after the other...

When I first approached FF11, it was the next FF game but also the online versione of my favorite rpg franchise. Ok, i jumped in, had my fair share of old skool grind and so on.
Today if you have like 6 FF related titles being released together with FF14, plus great looking titles everywhere you look and it's quite hard to think someone would happily dedicate itself to FF14 grind and be ok about that...

[Nevex]

Well, what's wrong with having less patience nowdays? Aren't videogames supposed to entertain you? If they can't do that and they only cause frustration, then they serve no purpose whatsoever and have no marketing value.

As the videogaming industry evolves, players expect new games to meet certain requirements. You can't have a game released in 2010 performing far worse than early '90s ones from a technical point of view.

FFXI, as flawed as it was, was a unique Final fantasy and a unique MMORPG, but FFXIV doesn't really have anything that another MMORPG, including FFXI itself, doesn't do better. Even crafting, which is the central activity FFXIV revolves around, is incredibly slow-paced and dull. The only good thing about it is that materials aren't as scarce as they were in FFXI.

[Lucavi]

When it comes to spending money each month on something, I don't think there's a problem with impatience, especially when this game was an impulse buy for many, who hoped that there would be some kind of change from pre-release to post-release.

If it was F2P once you bought the physical copy of the game, then sure, you might as well stick around for the ride, as it's not costing you anything, and the longer you play, the better return you'll get on your initial investment. But when you have to pay each month for the "privilege" of playing, it better be an amazing product whenever you start paying (be it at the beginning of the game's lifespan or at the tail end), or you shouldn't stick around until it becomes one.

[Katlan]

Games are made to be "fun." When a developer misses the "fun" in the game they have failed. People will always like a game that receives universal bad press, but w/so many games coming out left and right, unless you hit that mark people don't look back. It's not like, even, 5 years ago when there were maybe 5-10 amazing / high profile titles released a year. Now there is much more per year, and most people aren't going to stick around to play a bad game when so many others are on the market.. And by the time the game gets "fixed," it really just depends what else is out there because a majority of those people will have already moved on. That's why it's so important to grab everybody's attention on release, because a bad release means most will not come back, no matter how much you beg and offer goodies.

For example, FFXIV fails.. now lets say <insert fictitious mmo here> comes out before March and it turns out to be an amazing game that ppl love and can't get enough of. Do you really think those people will go back to XIV when they are content with another game? Some may, but most won't.

[Katlan]

sorry, double

[Hyan]

For example, FFXIV fails.. now lets say <insert fictitious mmo here> comes out before March and it turns out to be an amazing game that ppl love and can't get enough of. Do you really think those people will go back to XIV when they are content with another game? Some may, but most won't.

Do you think one will come out? lol

[Ksandra]

Do you think one will come out? lol

probably not, but Cata while not a new mmo is going to fucking change a huge portion to WoW including the actual land, and that comes out right around when the free trial ends, so ya Katlan's point is valid.

[solracht]

Don't think it has to do with patience, it has to do with the way the market is now. If I'm unhappy with the way a MMO developer handles my money, there are over 10 other ones to throw it at. Couldn't say the same 7 years ago. Hell, a lot of people got into FFXI without even knowing what an MMO was.

Someone was either too retarded or too confident about the PS3 release to release the game like this.

EDIT: Whee, tons of posts out of nowhere.

[Hyan]

probably not, but Cata while not a new mmo is going to fucking change a huge portion to WoW including the actual land, and that comes out right around when the free trial ends, so ya Katlan's point is valid.

I doubt it'll have enough appeal to affect anything more than in a small scale. Same with GW2.

They need to introduce new people to the genre either way. Using WoW's massive playerbase is just retarded when you have millions of sheeps ready to dive in as is. If they weren't interested in WoW before, I doubt Cata will change much.

[Katlan]

Do you think one will come out? lol

I guess I made the fictitious game sound too good. It just needs to be a mmo that is general good and people are satisfied w/. For example, I'm sure a lot of ppl gave XIV a chance to see how it would be before Cata comes out. Once cata comes out, those ppl won't give XIV another chance. GW2.. if that game delivers to even 3/4th of its potential, those ppl won't turn back to XIV. What about TERA? If people who tried XIV are happy w/ TERA and enjoy it, they won't go back to try XIV even if it's fixed.

I'm not talking about how many sub's the game has to be, I'm talking about it taking those dissatisfied XIV customers away and how most of them will not turn back to try XIV again once happy w/ another product.

Furthermore, I think each mmo has a period of time, before people move on, to prove why it's a good game that can keep on satisfying them. Once that player moves on to bigger and better things there is a good chance they won't turn back to try XIV again. some will, for sure, but most won't.

[Ksandra]

I doubt it'll have enough appeal to affect anything more than in a small scale. Same with GW2.

They need to introduce new people to the genre either way. Using WoW's massive playerbase is just retarded when you have millions of sheeps ready to dive in as is. If they weren't interested in WoW before, I doubt Cata will change much.

Who said they weren't interested in it before?

And we're not talking about wow players going to ffxiv, we're talking about ex ffxiv players going to wow, or gw2 or KotoR, and then coming back.

[Ksandra]

I guess I made the fictitious game sound too good. It just needs to be a mmo that is general good and people are satisfied w/. For example, I'm sure a lot of ppl gave XIV a chance to see how it would be before Cata comes out. Once cata comes out, those ppl won't give XIV another chance. GW2.. if that game delivers to even 3/4th of its potential, those ppl won't turn back to XIV. What about TERA? If people who tried XIV are happy w/ TERA and enjoy it, they won't go back to try XIV even if it's fixed.

I'm not talking about how many sub's the game has to be, I'm talking about it taking those dissatisfied XIV customers away and how most of them will not turn back to try XIV again once happy w/ another product.

Furthermore, I think each mmo has a period of time, before people move on, to prove why it's a good game that can keep on satisfying them. Once that player moves on to bigger and better things there is a good chance they won't turn back to try XIV again. some will, for sure, but most won't.

Aion is a good example of this. We set a forum up for it because of the huge interest people in BG has had on it.

For those that left it near the beginning, how many people have gone back to give it another try? DOesn't look like many, and from what I hear a lot has changed.

I can't think of an mmo that I've gone back to see if things are "fixed"

I've jumped around mmos a lot but the only two I went back n' forth on were WoW and FFXI, but that was because I like both and can't play 2 at the same time. And I never felt the game needed fixing.


Hell, I've said it tons of times, I fucking LOVED Warhammer. LOVED IT TO DEATH. BEST PVP EVER. But I haven't been back since getting all the gear I could get in the city at the time. They've changed a bunch of shit since then and fixed a lot, and now it's an endless free trial, and yet I still haven't gone back.

Of course that's no proof to how many people are like that, but at least for those I know, they are all in the same boat.

[Tomino]

Actually I dont thing MMO developers will ever be able to expand the genre playerbase by any large margin. I also don't see GW2 has an instrument to accomplish so, nor Cataclysm.

What WoW Lich King expansion show is how much your numbers skyrocket when you reach a proper balance between time/progression.
A lot of people my age are true videogame fans, love MMOs but are in no way able to still dump 5 hrs a day to reach level cap.

Now, WoW has specific design and visuals choices that represents its own good or bad (fantasy, cartoonish, western style, etc), so there's still lot room for other titles to gather a large crowd and give them good MMOs.
GW2 is mixing east and west quite nicely, and so are other titles probably.
FF14 has such stunning visuals and untapped potential I'd suggest it to a lot of artists I know if only, it wasn't the hardcore game it is now.

[Hyan]

And we're not talking about wow players going to ffxiv, we're talking about ex ffxiv players going to wow, or gw2 or KotoR, and then coming back.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing? Either way I think most people have played WoW if they have played XIV, or at least XI at this point. They'll go back to either game or won't play anything at all.

And since they're already familiar with the games, they're not as interested in them as before. It will appeal to them in short term, but not in the same way as a completely new game would.

As for GW2, the game hasn't even been designed to last in long-term.

lolTOR

Actually I dont thing MMO developers will ever be able to expand the genre playerbase by any large margin.

I don't understand how you came into that conclusion. Gaming industry is growing (at least when the economy is in check). It is still young enough, especially the MMO industry.