FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[ronin sparthos]

If XIV went to a F2P format then FFX-2 would be usurped as the biggest failure put forth by SE.

I really doubt it'd happen.

[Lucavi]

I didn't exactly chuckle, and it's no genius joke, that's for sure. Anyway back to flaming...

Why the fuck are there any avoidable TP attacks at all? Kinda defeats the reason the mob is using it.

DEPTH! C'mon, son!

In all seriousness, I don't really mind avoidable attacks, as it does... kinda... add something to the game, but not really in a slow-paced game like this, and shouldn't be handled like it currently is. If it was based on reaction (see Elcura's post) and not simply "oh, you better be perma-sidestepping before the mob even charges this up", then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion right now. The animation locks for just about everything that goes on in this game doesn't exactly help the situation.

A simple dodging mechanic that, when triggered properly, allowed your character to either dodge, parry, or partially deflect (thus mitigating some of the damage) would have worked better, but just about anything, really, would have worked better than this current link-from-one-fixed-animation-to-the-next-fest we have right now.

Edit: Correction, I typically have 100% no issues with your posts, but for this one, I have to raise a red flag. Neither side on that issue is right or wrong. Wada has said plenty of things in the past that turned out radically different than what he initially talked about. Sankakyu is also an online tabloid/porn site, instead of anything resembling a reputable news site.

That being said, I'd side with the tabloid over whatever Wada is saying "publicly". I know how the spin of PR goes, and the more I hear "official" statements made to the press, yet hear the real statements behind them, the less inclined I am to believe anything that comes out of a person's mouth during a public statement, especially in my line of work.

[Correction]

If XIV went to a F2P format then FFX-2 would be usurped as the biggest failure put forth by SE.

I really doubt it'd happen.

Unlimited Saga

[plue]

I've figured out what I find so annoying about this game. They tried to mix the slow FF style of gameplay with a more action oriented game. They ended up blending it into a big pile of shit. You end up with a slow paced action game without any of the essential battle strategy that was there in the slow battles. They put in big numbers to everything (HP, TP, DMG, etc) and flashy graphics, but polishing a turd doesn't help.

[Ksandra]

If XIV went to a F2P format then FFX-2 would be usurped as the biggest failure put forth by SE.

I really doubt it'd happen.

except, x-2 was actually a good game

[shepardG]

except, x-2 was actually a good game

I never played it but on a money/business/corporate decision level it was a great success. Helped secure the merger of square and enix corp. Etc.

[Riposte]

Another ingredient which is making this game hard to balance is party vs solo play. Because of SP and other factors, the game is being played so that parties don't have a strong basis in cooperation. Groups of soloers. It is really hard to say what kind of balancing or the depth of changes we will get out of the twin updates. There is also the addition of NMs to consider. Truthfully though, I am hoping normal parties get a revamp too.

They need to stick to that many vs many line, but they are going to run into a few snags. That requires a targeting system that is as fluid as any action game which has one. Also how does one handle SP fairly in a situation where not every monster is getting hit by every player? Not to say these difficulties don't arise when it is 15 players bashing a monster, but it could only get worse. Despite that, I'd like to see mechanics which turn a single monster into a party of monsters when confronted with a party. I can see something like it in guildleves.

EDIT: And if I have to be picky, players AND monsters should get bonuses entirely based on how they stand with allies. Battle formations and flanking and so on.

EDIT: Also no ask the devs today. Dead game.

[Shaskoru]

@last page's comments on the question:

Haters.

In all seriousness, it was a question that was in support of the dead game statement, and it wasn't really serious to begin with. I found it hilarious that Mio took it literally and attempted to defend his oversight.

On topic:

They really should stop putting the word "casual" on their press releases, since it's clear they have no clue what a casual player is.

As a casual, I agree with this completely.

[Riposte]

Actually there IS an ask the devs, but no one made a thread. Dead forum.

EDIT:

* In the November 2010 version update, not only will the amount of anima required to Return be lowered from 2 units to 1, players will be also have the option to register up to three "favorite" locations to their Teleport list, halving the amount of anima required to travel to them.

This is what they said initially. This won't be enough unless maybe they also add Chocobos.

EDIT: Also even 1 point for Return is silly because it is free if you die. Think I'll carry around an alchemy tool with a naked macro.

EDIT:

Erozean scientists have yet to discover a safe, quick way to restore anima, and so it is highly recommended that you teleport wisely.

Slaves. It ain't hard. You take a lesser human and you make him teleport you around. We even have retainers. Incompetent erozeans.

[Charismatic]

I think it was made obvious quite some time ago that BG on the whole gives less than 2 shits about FFXIV.

[Katlan]

* In the November 2010 version update, not only will the amount of anima required to Return be lowered from 2 units to 1, players will be also have the option to register up to three "favorite" locations to their Teleport list, halving the amount of anima required to travel to them.

I can see it now...

Click anima > do you want to save this as favorite #1? (yes/no option) > no > do you want to save this as favorite #2 (yes/no option) > no > do you want to save this as favorite #3 (yes/no option) > yes > Are you sure? (yes/no) > yes > If you proceed you will lose your favorite [Gridania] (yes/no) > yes > Your favorite #3 has now been changed

[Tomino]

One thing that is really going to blow in their face is the fact they made characters TOO versatile for a game based (or supposedly based) on cooperation.

Let me explain:
In FF11, lots of key skills are acquired after a "ding!" and are there for you to use. Equipment also comes into play and it can easily be checked. This means whenever you pick up someone for your exp party, you look for a desired job level, a proper levelled sub, and decent gear. Sure there can be melees with no WS unlocked or /NIN with no shadows, but that's the minority.

In FF14, a rank20 Gladiator can be like a hundred things (not counting gear). It could come with Taunt, Punish B, Defender, Shock Spikes, but it also could not. If players are given the freedom to chose, then you either have a VERY forgiving game (see WoW LK) or it's a complete mess.
This means that you'll end up with very closed player groups (LSs, probably) simply because you won't be able to properly recruit random people when they can end up being so many different things while being the same class and rank. Unless they nerf party combat to herpderp levels consisting of braindead zergs.

[Damane]

I think it was made obvious quite some time ago that BG on the whole gives less than 2 shits about FFXIV.

Its not only FFXIV, I think SE games are lacking lately extremely, I cant remember when I played a GOOD SE (no FFXIII was NOT good) game the last time and it got to the point where I am avoiding them entirely, especially since FFXIV.

[Zilong]

If XIV went to a F2P format then FFX-2 would be usurped as the biggest failure put forth by SE.

I really doubt it'd happen.

TSW

And good luck competing with the rest of the flawed yet still playable MMO market on the F2P model.

[Nevex]

Its not only FFXIV, I think SE games are lacking lately extremely, I cant remember when I played a GOOD SE (no FFXIII was NOT good) game the last time and it got to the point where I am avoiding them entirely, especially since FFXIV.

FFXIV is the first objectively bad main FF game and the reason a lot of people were utterly shocked and disappointed by it was because there were no bad mainstream FFs before this (XIII IS good and the vast majority of people on these forums think so. "Annoying characters" and such are subjective complaints, unplayable game is not).

It doesn't matter much to SE anyway. MMORPGs are a niche gaming genre; compare FFXIII's 5.5m sales to FFXIV's 400k.
SE might at worst lose 400k or so purchases on their next big FF game if FFXIV alone was reason enough to turn people off.
Realistically the number of lost customers will not be remotely close to that.

Of course I doubt SE will even think to make another MMORPG anytime soon though, but FFXIV's failure won't affect them on a larger scale.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Gah. VIII was a terrible game, so was XIII. If it's not some horrible gimick like draw magic, then it's shallow character development and a plotline with more holes in it than a ton of swiss cheese. SE has, imo, lost the ability to make a solid all-around game that is not only fun, but immersing and makes you want to turn it on and play for hours. Since X every game has put you on this linear path of character progression (although not XII as much) where they know that at X point in time you will have Y abilities and you need them to kill Z boss. The sphere grid, license board, and crystarium are all spin-offs of the same idea of character progression. SE needs to develop something new for their games other than just a combat system. Even the story lines have been somewhat parallel (although not a storyline buff myself so idc). The gameplay in the last 5 or so titles has been incredibly predictable and it just feels like we're being led along on a leash where there's very little wiggle room. What about FFVI's open world, character progression, and incredibly deep character development? VII even came close to that, IX too. Since those days it's been just a brand name to reserve at the local gamestop, play, and not really get much out of, again imo.

I think SE has lost its touch in the game-making department and while XIV was the straw that broke the camel's back, I've been questioning why I buy their games since before playing XII.

[Riposte]

Consider that these recent games are not made by the same team and they are flawed for completely different reasons. Stupid FF fanboys.

One thing you might draw as consistent is SE's classical method of disposing of battle systems, transportation, leveling systems, etc like nothing, rather than building on them. FFXIV seems to have dipose of a lot of FFXI. Stuff people feel are basic necessities.

[Riposte]

One thing that is really going to blow in their face is the fact they made characters TOO versatile for a game based (or supposedly based) on cooperation.

There are characteristics restricted to classes as far as I can tell. Can a non-Marauder get Steadfast? I think they might be able to, but that could be a glitch no? If it intended that Steadfast is for Marauder's only, then even if you could use a Marauder's abilities, few of them will be AoE and fewer will build enmity.

Also what individual classes can do doesn't matter so much, as long players need to cooperate.

EDIT: I was playfully thinking about doing a mini-review(two paragraph) of this version of the game. It would be 2/6(one star out of three), firmly placed in "disapproval". Had anima alone been more generous it might actually be a 3/6(one and a half stars), ambivalence tilted towards disapproval. Running around is truly detrimental to everything in this game. I should be especially thankful for mid-terms since anima isn't much of a problem at the moment. (EDIT: Ah, who am I kidding, either no UI lag or a UI designed with such limitations in mind(inventory especially) would also be necessary for 3/6.)

[Tomino]

Also what individual classes can do doesn't matter so much, as long players need to cooperate.

Agree on that but as far as game design goes, it's too risky to give too much control into the hands of MMO players. If the goal of an MMO is to make people interact with each others and clear content, then I don't see what good can come from creating such enormous line between good and bad players.
In FF14, "perfect" setups are just harder to accomplish than any other game, plus gear, plus variety (assuming NMs will require different party setups), which basically makes the game even more hardcore than FF11.

When recruiting for a rank40+ party, how a leader is supposed to look for people? Make 10 lines long comments about each sub-skills required for each class?

[ronin sparthos]

I never played it but on a money/business/corporate decision level it was a great success. Helped secure the merger of square and enix corp. Etc.

It was a business win solely based on the previous success of FFX. Lots of people rushed out to pick up X-2 simply based on the previous entry being revolutionary.

SE may have saw profit but that doesn't make X-2 a positive entry into the world of FF.

The good battle system was hamstrung by a bad story and ludicrous amounts of fanservice. To a Final Fantasy fan, this game only began the divisive era of FF games that would later come.