FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[solracht]

There are no classes in this game, you're all just trolling each other.

[notorious bum]

Thank you retarded rambling man.

hahaha You are the most incoherent troll on this thread, even dude with broken english can convey his opinions more easily than you.

If that's all you got to say, then I will leave you with this nugget: "atleast I'm not the sucker who wasted his money on a pile of shit everyone predicted would not be worth purchasing at launch."

Too bad you can't return that coaster to EB and buy something that won't make you a bitter BG troll.

[Riposte]

I paid exactly 0.00 dollars on FFXIV so far

(You were better off leaving nothing behind)

[shepardG]

Has anyone in this thread played 11 in the past 3-4 months? I keep seeing people mention its grindiness, but I don't see any folks mention how much new solo/lowman/"I've only got an hour to play today" content they have added. I mean in 3 hours in a shit abysses alliance you can get 2-3 levels on your beast (yeah they get invites now) then with additional time, go solo some NM's for your warrior seals and work towards a big NM pop for your 6 man party group. The next day you can do dynamis with 8 folks and clear the whole zone in 3 hours (twice) and then go work on your magian weapons which take minimal effort and 80% of them make the next best thing look like shit.

I mean killing NM's is like a Fucking mini game now! Its fun and provides such a great cheap sense of accomplishment when you proc a blue. "!!". I mean people are spaming shadowstitch and talking about the best gear sets for level 30 thief Weaponskills.
Seriously, the more I think about SE's "casual players welcome" statements, the more I feel they typo'd FFXI and said FFXIV instead

Also i've turned my bot on twice in the past 4 months because the only point to botting is to ease the effort requuired to duall box.

EDIT: Also Tol, pretty sure you owe up on the quote in my sig... IMJUSSAYIN

[Meresgi]

Important? Define important here. No, it wouldn't change anything to the gameplay, but yes, people would be more tolerant to the shitty gameplay if they were playing a classes they were emotionally attached to. How much would it change? Not much, but every little bit count.
[edit]
Why do you think AF were such a popular goal in FFXI? Replace them with generic set, and you lose a fair chunk of the population because they have nothing to look forward.
You can deny this all you want, but the fact remain that players wanted to wear their jobs clothes only because it meants more than just stats.

What the fuck is this shit? When was AF armor introduced to FFXI? Since when do job names hold nostalgia, a black mage is just a caster that tosses out elemental spells. And 14 allows you to make your caster be a RDM, WHM, BLM or w/e the hell you want it to be. If you have nostalgia for a class...go and make it. Saying people are emotionally tied to a label is retarded at best, trolling at worst.

How long are you going to drag "the game just fucking launched" excuse? I'm curious.

Maybe till the first major content update around when PS3 version is launched. I love how people make accusations and comparisons based on what FFXI was like when we got it, when it already had its first expansion. If you don't like the game, stop playing it and wait. World of Warcraft only had BRD/Blackrock Spire for end game for a while.

They released terrible game. That's your context. If you think the first update is going to fix everything, you're retarded.

I don't think anyone really believes a single patch will fix the entire game, but a good patch that fixes even 20% of what's wrong is a great patch and shows shit is being done.

It's evolving at turtle pace

Right because every fucking MMO that has ever been released, was released with hours upon hours of end game content, full functional classes and UI and everything working perfectly. Get over yourself, jesus.


FFXIV isnt amazing, and it's not even that great, but from the current stand point, things are being addressed. People are just so blinded by rage they want everything all at once because they believe SE owes them something.

[Lucavi]

Actually, throwing more money at it works too.

Better even.

Didn't work with the spirits within, and won't necessarily work here. You need more than just wads of cash; you need ideas and someone with a good sense of direction. SE seems to have neither right now, and from the looks of their stock, they might even be starting to lack a bit of the first one, at least, in terms of how much spare yen they have to plunge into completely redesigning this game.

The general argument and counter argument around here over the last few pages seems to be "it is, until it isn't". While that certainly can work in a few instances, its no less annoying to actually have to bother to respond to.

[notorious bum]

I have a feeling Meresgi's MMO experience is limited to a handful of games. Anyone who's been around the block can tell you that patching excuse that keeps getting used is complete bullshit, since you can't actually patch fundamentally broken game design choices.

[Draylo]

Kaylia made an excellent point that follows the theme of half-baked game design in this pile of shit game.

The fact that the jobs, "magic", or anything else resembling Fantasy in this game is so fucking generic is the first red flag that popped up when this game went alpha. There really is no strong argument for NOT keeping the FF Tactics-style online formula that made FFXI actually worth sticking around when greeted by such a bastardly leveling system at launch.

Answer this: Do you believe FFXI would be even half as successful as it was at the beginning if they decided to make bland, unidentifiable jobs with names like thautawhothefuckmage? Hell no, why not go play any number of boring ass PC MMO clones with zero flavor and monotonous level grinds?

And YES, I would play a FFXI clone with updated graphics over this bucket of fail in a heartbeat. Keep in mind, they would have more opportunities to improve so much of what handicapped FFXI, instead of pulling hairs developing stupid shit like a failed exp/battle-system.

'

I agree, I felt like the jobs were extremely stupid and bland... FFtactics job system would have been awesome. Honestly they should just scrap this shit and stick with updating 11

[Hyan]

Didn't work with the spirits within, and won't necessarily work here. You need more than just wads of cash; you need ideas and someone with a good sense of direction. SE seems to have neither right now, and from the looks of their stock, they might even be starting to lack a bit of the first one, at least, in terms of how much spare yen they have to plunge into completely redesigning this game.

We'll see in November.

I think we have pointed them to the right direction, for the most part. But yes, they have to be competent enough to pull it off too.

Anyone who's been around the block can tell you that patching excuse that keeps getting used is complete bullshit, since you can't actually patch fundamentally broken game design choices.

Most companies just don't have what it takes.

[Meresgi]

I have a feeling Meresgi's MMO experience is limited to a handful of games. Anyone who's been around the block can tell you that patching excuse that keeps getting used is complete bullshit, since you can't actually patch fundamentally broken game design choices.

I've played a shit ton of MMOs at launch of dabbled in them during their first year(nothing too early like EQ1, AC or what not). What's so broken in FFXIV that can't be patched? Give me a list of every game design choice that can not be patched from your standpoint.

Edit: ill list some shit design choices that can be patched.

UI issues, anima regen, fighting mechanics, end game content, crafting hangups, random skill gains.

[Hyan]

Some of that shit just takes more money to fix. There is very little that they can't do.

Why are some of you seriously saying 'design' can't be fixed nor changed? It makes absolutely no sense.

[Meresgi]

Some of that shit just takes more money to fix. There is very little that they can't do.

Why are some of you seriously saying 'design' can't be fixed nor changed? It makes absolutely no sense.

Apparently when you design something using 1s and 0's it can never..NEVER...EVER be changed

but seriously, for anyone who thinks shit can't be changed. look at AoC or WoW.

[Lucavi]

Some of that shit just takes more money to fix. There is very little that they can't do.

Why are some of you seriously saying 'design' can't be fixed nor changed? It makes absolutely no sense.

I say design can't be changed with SE, not in general. WoW can change their design because they aren't a bunch of stuffy old business suits with their heads shoved up their ass to the point where they can no longer hear the criticisms or suggestions of anyone that isn't their wife or themself. SE, mirroring the old guard of the entire nation, is proud to a fault, and seems to actively detest taking feedback/criticism from others.

If a company won't listen (even if they say they are as a part of PR), or at least understand that the common player is capable of (and does from time to time) thinking up and describing in great detail quality ideas, and that same company has a design philosophy that seems to worship stagnation and doing things the "tried and true" way or "the way its always been done", then no, the 'design' can't be fixed nor changed.

In my opinion, numbers can be changed. RNG figures and algorithms can be changed. New concepts can be added, mostly things with be- prefixes like beseiged and behest (hate the way they name shit, but that's another rant altogether), and existing concepts can be tweaked (but not outright scrapped and redesigned) like how TP moves interact with the target, ect.

Major things will not be changed, however. The game's over reliance on loading screens cannot be changed. The FFXIII feeling of linearity cannot be changed, as even zones like Coerthas have surprisingly little "things" to discover, and you can already feel that the game will eventually return to quests being "go to ??? >> CS >> fight popped mob >> receive item >> back to town >> CS >> reward", ect. The UI lag cannot be changed, because SE has already committed to this stupid system.

You can't throw WoW into the discussion and say "oh, SE can change shit by throwing money at it because WoW does!". WoW listens to its fans and players, even the most stupid or obsessed. They may not follow the "instructions" or "directions" of the fans, but they listen, and you can easily tell that they listen. Hell, the most ardent of FFXI-XIV fans don't even -want- the devs to listen to fans, as they think that the average fan is an idiot, yet will turn right around and say that the average fan somehow trumps the shit out of the average WoW fan.

How often has SE honestly and truly shown its player base that it has actively listened and changed its core concept on any major issue because of fan response? I think we saw it once in Alpha-Beta when the slow original battle system was modified, but when people complained about the new one (really asking for a mix of the two), SE was silent on the issue.

Yeah, you can't compare the two. At all.

[Katlan]

Huh? How does that even follow.

You are trying way too hard to butt heads here and I don't even think you understand what I said.

Your trying way to hard to disprove everybody. instead of understanding that what everyone says (including yourself) is just their personal opinion, you act like its fact and have to defend it like its a factual statement. See what I did there?

[Hyan]

So many words, so little to say.

How often has SE honestly and truly shown its player base that it has actively listened and changed its core concept on any major issue because of fan response?

Doesn't matter. If the current game doesn't appeal to people, they will change it. It's not a new concept to them. If the players stick around even if there are major issue(s) present, they won't fix them. We know that bitching alone won't make them throw more money at the game. They will do it if they have something to gain as well.

[notorious bum]

I was just going to throw in a quick reply after my delicious lunch recess to point out that things like: the garbage retainer system PROBABLY won't be patched or the useless and counter-intuitive stat allocation system PROBABLY won't get patched and so on; in reference to my comments earlier.

But, Lucavi pretty much summed up my thoughts on the subject anyways.

[Tomino]

Since when do job names hold nostalgia, a black mage is just a caster that tosses out elemental spells. And 14 allows you to make your caster be a RDM, WHM, BLM or w/e the hell you want it to be. If you have nostalgia for a class...go and make it. Saying people are emotionally tied to a label is retarded at best, trolling at worst.

My bad review of FF14 isn't just about "labels".
As others have already pointed out before me, classes are simply not interesting. Also, the whole "we give you skills, you create the classes" is a lame excuse for not making design choices.

"Black mage" isnt just a name. By FF definition, it's a magic user focused on offensive magic. It's straight, simple, and it works.
What's a "Conjurer" exactly? Someone who conjures elemental energies I guess, but then why does it have CURES which are a whole different school of magic?
"Thaumaturge"? It has a lot of dark flavor to it (poisons, barbs, uses blood, etc) and then it has this name and inspiration which is basically a D&D cleric.

[Hyan]

This page is basically the proof that every change ever made is going to be criticized by someone no matter what, because CHANGE.

[Lucavi]

So many words, so little to say.



Doesn't matter. If the current game doesn't appeal to people, they will change it. It's not a new concept to them. If the players stick around even if there are major issue(s) present, they won't fix them. We know that bitching alone won't make them throw more money at the game. They will do it if they have something to gain as well.

Nonsense. They had plenty to gain when half the FFXI population bailed the fuck out post-CoP, and what did they do? Piss off half of the remaining half with salvage bans, lol.

They simply continue to float down a river of their own design, tailoring the game to how they envision it ending up. You really think players had a say in XI outside of ballista, pankration and fucking chocobo racing? That's all fluff. No core concepts were changed because people complained. They added things in to "APPEASE" people, not -because- of people.

Dream on, Hyan.

Edit: And no, Hyan, not everything is criticized. I had and still have no criticisms about Campaign. None at all. It was a nearly perfect concept for the game it was found in, IMO. I'd resub to XIV in a heartbeat if they took the exact same thing and dumped it in, while giving SP on the mob kills.

You're wrong again, but its alright. Its impossible not to be wrong with such an absurd statement.

[Tomino]

This page is basically the proof that every change ever made is going to be criticized by someone no matter what, because CHANGE.

That's usually the most common excuse for something that was simply put, bad.
Sure, I can agree change is aways risky and anyone should be praised for trying, but the argument itself really isnt enough to defend FF14 in this specific instance.