FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Elrina]

Not sure if anyone has posted this buuuuuutttttt.....

http://blog.games.yahoo.com/photos/1...0/1#OmgPhoid=2

It was, a few times actually.

[Alderaan]

And what would have that accomplished? lol

XI playerbase got smaller, XIV playerbase got larger, +-0.

It would have made a nice new home for XI players, instead of sending them back to XI. I'm not sure what you mean.

Hey, we were all pro-grind a while ago when they introduced the fatigue system. They're getting mixed messages.

No one in there right mind was pro grind. We just don't like to be limited and forced down a route. How about they knock off the punishing everyone bullshit and actually give us a game where we don't notice we're leveling. Full of content and story, including quests that tie into that. It's painfully clear they were not ready to do that as well as allocate funds to maintain their MMO in today's climate.

I'm not putting up with 8 more years of bullshit. I was willing to because XI was good and i had less options, but not this mess of a so called MMO.

[Hyan]

It would have made a nice new home for XI players, instead of sending them back to XI. I'm not sure what you mean.

13 bucks there, 13 bucks here. Nothing changes.

No one in there right mind was pro grind. We just don't like to be limited and forced down a route. How about they knock off the punishing everyone bullshit and actually give us a game where we don't notice we're leveling.

So, pro-grind it is. I agree with you. Grind is fine (and necessary) as long as there is enough content to back it up.

Gotta admit most of you were pro-grind without even realizing it. It's funny in a way, but not a decision you made knowingly.

Granted, SE wasn't exactly going to make the game that grind-heavy, but now they made the fatigue not matter instead. Only one thing could have happened when they did that, and here we are today. Enjoy your freedom.

[Elrina]

They could have removed the fatigue or made it irrelevant without making the game grind heavy (obviously not without any grind at all), and just been creative about how they adjusted the pace of the game. Problem is, however, creativity requires time and resources, and this wasn't in the budget. And right now grinding is all there really is to do (from what I understand), so it's actually rather fortunate that they made the fatigue almost unnoticeable.

You don't necessarily need to be pro-grind just to be anti-fatigue. You may see them as one and the same, and it may be unrealistic to hope for something else, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

[Hyan]

They could have removed the fatigue or made it irrelevant without making the game grind heavy (obviously not without any grind at all), and just been creative about how they adjusted the pace of the game. Problem is, however, creativity requires time and resources, and this wasn't in the budget. And right now grinding is all there really is to do (from what I understand), so it's actually rather fortunate that they made the fatigue almost unnoticeable.

You don't necessarily need to be pro-grind just to be anti-fatigue. You may see them as one and the same, and it may be unrealistic to hope for something else, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

I've heard enough utopistic expectations but there is no real argument here :/.

"creativity" = "fill the world with so much content it doesn't matter that we're grinding our asses off".

But it does require time and resources to create that content, you are absolutely correct about that.

[Elrina]

I've heard enough utopistic expectations but there is no real argument here :/.

"creativity" = "fill the world with so much content it doesn't matter that we're grinding our asses off".

But it does require time and resources to create that content, you are absolutely correct about that.

Creativity does require content, true, but it doesn't equate to content. Creativity, real creativity, wouldn't just be filling with world with a bunch of different shit so that we don't notice the actual grind as much. That never worked in XI, that I can remember, and I had a lot of different things to do. Still hated "exping".

I mean content that is actually creative, in a way that you don't spend a huge amount of time grinding exp/SP in one way. You do it for a much smaller amount of time, in several different ways, each balanced to offer a roughly equivalent amount of exp+SP/hour. Even now, so far as I know, you can't get nearly as much exp doing anything else in XI than you can in a proper party, not counting abyssea. If you're able to quest, do Leves, something akin to campaign, some form of pvp, some form of linear/non-linear dungeons, and regardless of what you do gain roughly the same amount of exp+SP/hour, then you don't really notice the "grind" as much since it's broken up into several different activities. It can be balanced that way, and offer that, it doesn't need to be done the way XI was that made "exping" equate only to grinding on mobs in a party. And those are old/normal ideas, not anything especially creative either.

But yeah, time and resources. I didn't expect this yet, and won't till at least after these announced updates, possibly longer. That's okay. Right now it's more about fixing that stuff, falling back on a traditional grind isn't that big of a deal.

The hope, at least for me, is that they eventually balance all of the other aspects that could grant exp and SP in a way that they offer, like I mentioned, a roughly equivalent amount per hour as normal mob grinding in a group. Since a grind typically requires focusing on a specific activity over a length of time, it would greatly decrease the overall grind for most people, since it would offer them many different ways to earn the same amount of exp/SP. It would be grinding several different things to a lesser degree, rather than one thing to a much greater degree. And leves, quests, whatever could always be set to offer slightly more in a group to encourage a party, being able to earn roughly 66~75% solo of what you could in a party would be great, maintaining the incentive to party while giving a respectable amount of progress solo.

Granted, most of this is opinion, and therefore subjective. Like I said, didn't expect it, don't expect it. However, it would be nice to have several alternative activities that would offer the same exp/SP, rather than needing to focus on a single grind-heavy activity as the only efficient way of obtaining a high rate per hour.

tl;dr
I just reread that and apparently repeated the same thing like three times, rofl. Last paragraph covers the essence of the whole post.

[Alderaan]

Depends on your prospective i suppose Hyan.

I can "grind" for hours if there's enough content to keep me busy so that i don't notice i'm leveling.

I cannot sit in one spot for hours and just grind away on one mob that has nothing to do with making a difference to the surrounding area. I guess i personally am just past that sort of gameplay.

[Hyan]

However, it would be nice to have several alternative activities that would offer the same exp/SP, rather than needing to focus on a single grind-heavy activity as the only efficient way of obtaining a high rate per hour.

tl;dr
I just reread that and apparently repeated the same thing like three times. Last paragraph covers the essence of the whole post.

I see better what you mean now. While I think that's still pretty much pro-grind, it is a smart way to go about it. A bit like leveling in traditional party, MMM, Abyssea or Campaign/theAbysseaCampaign in XI, even though people will always do it the most efficient way anyway. There is always one over the others!

I cannot sit in one spot for hours and just grind away on one mob that has nothing to do with making a difference to the surrounding area. I guess i personally am just past that sort of gameplay.

Me too.

[Kurp]

Is it too much to hope for, if I want the next zones released to not be copy/paste bullshit?

Give me unique landscapes and features over all the new zones.

[Kaylia]

13 bucks there, 13 bucks here. Nothing changes.

Development cost and maintenance cost would like to have a word with you.


Also, it's not uncommon to kill addiction to a drug with a lesser drug. Trying to make people move for the sake of it is a very risky move.

[Kaylia]

New is always better

Yep! That's what I said!

Yet, you started the meaningless argument over FFXI vs FFXIV class detail with "people are afraid of change", as if it was their reason why they dislike the system in XIV.

[Hyan]

Also, it's not uncommon to kill addiction to a drug with a lesser drug. Trying to make people move for the sake of it is a very risky move.

I agree. Using XI classes would have done nothing good.

[Kaylia]

I agree. Using XI classes would have done nothing good.

Explain.

[Hyan]

Trying to make people move for the sake of it is a very risky move.

"We'll make this game like XI so people will move to it instead of playing XI."

This is how I interpreted your sentence.

[Lucavi]

I don't see why the former would make the game any better for anyone but the "FF purists".

They already took the best class of XI to XIV, BLU. At least in concept so far.

I dunno. A fluid combat system without animation locks would have made both FFXI and FFXIV better for everyone.

Who likes animation locks? Honestly?

[Hyan]

I dunno. A fluid combat system without animation locks would have made both FFXI and FFXIV better for everyone.

Who likes animation locks? Honestly?

I didn't disagree with him on that :D

At least that wasn't my intention.

[Lucavi]

Okay, just making sure, phew.

[Kaylia]

"We'll make this game like XI so people will move to it instead of playing XI."

This is how I interpreted your sentence.

Players who are not satisfied with FFXIV won't necessarily go back to to FFXI. Hell, weren't you the one saying you never go back to older game?


Anyway, it was just an addition to the main point that hosting two mmo cost much more than one. Its not 13$ vs 13$, but 13$-maintenance cost versus 13$-2*maintenance cost

[Lucavi]

I go back to older games all the time. I just don't go back to older games that I have to pay monthly for.

Biiig difference.

[Kaylia]

That was just an example specific to Hyan. I'm simply saying that only a minority will go back to FFXI if they didn't like FFXIV.

I know many people who made the jump, didn't like ffxiv but arent planning to go back to xi. Does it balance out with the amount of people paying for both game? I doubt so based on the sample around me.