FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Kaylia]

Again, we're getting back to the fact that "freedom" does not carry the same meaning in video game development as it does in the good 'ol US of A. The misunderstanding that made everyone throw a fit about that fatigue video using the word.

Your... predictions... are also based on a very limited style of play. Perhaps there will be a generic build for the very limit amount of important and difficult battles in end-game. I understand it's hard to get your head out of just how you would play or what content you would be focused on, but come on. As much as you personally do not care about them, there's more things to do than fight Tiamat and Khimaira.

Indeed, we wont know how well balanced the system is until we see HNM.

However, it's stll an issue present in every mmo (and game), and pretending FFXIV doesnt obey these rules is pushing it, especially since they slapped the battle system together at the last second.

[Kaylia]

Okay?

The post I quoted implies that FFXIV class system is deeper because it allow for more customization than its predecessor. It was listed as a strong point.

In what way additional freedom create superior gameplay?

[Riposte]

I just explained it.

[Tomino]

EDIT: wrote a much longer post, then I decided I already asked you to stop using "bullshit" and "suck" in your replies so I guess I'll just drop it here.

[Riposte]

LOL

EDIT: Ah, no reason to be disappointed, you were probably weren't going to top the initial post. That was some grade A stuff.

[sruon]

I approve this thread.









(notrly)

[Charismatic]

Meh, this is one of the stupidest arguments I've seen in a while.

Some people like the FFXIV classes and some don't. Blah blah blah. Who cares... other than the same faggots who will argue anything?

Anyway, far more importantly is the list of shit that they are 'fixing' in the November-December update. Anyone who says the game wasn't a complete pile of shit on launch should just look at that list and read up on all the things that were bad enough to need fixing. And what's sad about it is, that update will only really put it where it basically should have been at day one. In my opinion, they are still months behind. Now, I didn't expect them to have a super amazing game on launch, but just one that... you know, had map markers for me to see my party members (and ones for quests that didn't make me go through several prompts to bring up on a separate map with no sort of tracking feature), decent accuracy formulas so I didn't spend most of my time whiffing even with high dex and accuracy gear, SP gain that isn't RANDOM AS FUCK, auto-sort, enough inventory space to hold items gained while out in the field (you know, before jamming it with equipment for several jobs and stuff. I don't expect infinite inventory but 80 spaces when nearly every enemy you're killing drops +1, +2 and +3 versions of the various items that don't stack together AND drop multiple types of items, etc etc... just ain't enough), doesn't make me stop when I check someone's bazaar, one that showed prices in retainer bazaars more readily so I don't have to spend ages shopping with the already retarded bazaar system (though I wish they'd have just thrown in an auction house instead), and more...
(Also note that while I had access to the beta forums back in early beta I saw most of these issues having been brought up on the forums. It is, in my opinion, pathetic that they waited this long to do anything to their game).

The classes being gay or not being gay has little bearing on why this game fucking sucks donkey balls, though I guess if the game had some awesome classes and amazingly cool combos you could throw together with the abilities you learn from them it might be a little bit easier to stomach this garbage. Who knows?

[Kaylia]

No matter how it turns out giving a player more options is a good thing.

More options is good because more options is good. Very deep reasoning right here....

You talk about balance like it an easy task to accomplish, but you ignore the difficulty of tuning a system that involve hundred of parameters in multiple scenarios. Saying it can be balanced is just wishful thinking.

FFXI had balance issue for years with its "lesser" system. What make you think they will be able to do it this time around? Hell, even Blizzard and its army of developer simplified WoW's system recently to allow easier balance and control over the gameplay. Why are they doing this if more options is a good thing?

Secondly, you are ignoring how difficult it is to design challenging encounters when players have a lot of freedom. Take a look at Bahamut fight in FFXI...It was very challenging with a well balanced group, but people just cheesed the hell out of it because it was easier. The developer could nerf certain strategy (immune to this, immune to that), but that's just moving the limit to a different aspect of the gameplay.

Lastly, is there any real diversity when the gameplay is balanced? Are the skills just fluff that come in differents color and shape, or they actually offer different playstyle on their own? In the end, what you notice is that there is only an handful of different play style despite the near infinite amount of possibility.



[edit]
Having more options also have advantage, especially for the "role playing" aspect of the game, but that's no different from wanting specific class in the game. It's all fluff.

[Kaylia]

Meh, this is one of the stupidest arguments I've seen in a while.

Some people like the FFXIV classes and some don't. Blah blah blah. Who cares... other than the same faggots who will argue anything?

Anyway, far more importantly is the list of shit that they are 'fixing' in the November-December update. Anyone who says the game wasn't a complete pile of shit on launch should just look at that list and read up on all the things that were bad enough to need fixing. And what's sad about it is, that update will only really put it where it basically should have been at day one. In my opinion, they are still months behind. Now, I didn't expect them to have a super amazing game on launch, but just one that... you know, had map markers for me to see my party members (and ones for quests that didn't make me go through several prompts to bring up on a separate map with no sort of tracking feature), decent accuracy formulas so I didn't spend most of my time whiffing even with high dex and accuracy gear, SP gain that isn't RANDOM AS FUCK, auto-sort, enough inventory space to hold items gained while out in the field (you know, before jamming it with equipment for several jobs and stuff. I don't expect infinite inventory but 80 spaces when nearly every enemy you're killing drops +1, +2 and +3 versions of the various items that don't stack together AND drop multiple types of items, etc etc... just ain't enough), doesn't make me stop when I check someone's bazaar, one that showed prices in retainer bazaars more readily so I don't have to spend ages shopping with the already retarded bazaar system (though I wish they'd have just thrown in an auction house instead), and more...
(Also note that while I had access to the beta forums back in early beta I saw most of these issues having been brought up on the forums. It is, in my opinion, pathetic that they waited this long to do anything to their game).

The classes being gay or not being gay has little bearing on why this game fucking sucks donkey balls, though I guess if the game had some awesome classes and amazingly cool combos you could throw together with the abilities you learn from them it might be a little bit easier to stomach this garbage. Who knows?

Worst part is that despite all the change, you will log in, pick a guildleve, run to a camp and realize its just as fucking boring as ever.

[eadieni]

You don't do leves after level 20, you grind in 15 person parties until 35, then go back to 5-7 person parties and grind on the same mobs, then move on to a new spot.

[Kaylia]

Yeah, but people got tired of crabs massacre 7 years ago. Guildleve was suposed to be the fun twist.

[Riposte]

You talk about balance like it an easy task to accomplish, but you ignore the difficulty of tuning a system that involve hundred of parameters in multiple scenarios.

No, I don't lol

[miokomioko]

Yeah, but people got tired of crabs massacre 7 years ago. Guildleve was suposed to be an alternate way to earn a decent amount of exp/skill for people with not enough playtime to grind away in big exp groups.

I think this would be more accurate. I don't believe for a minute that Guildleves were intended to be the primary way to earn exp/skill.

[Nevex]

They might not be the primary way to gain SP but you still need those to progress because they give you gil, guild marks, faction credits and assorted rewards.
Whether you like them or not, you're going to have to do those, they're not an optional if you want to get anywhere in this game.

[Kaylia]

No, I don't lol

Make a whole lot of sense then....

Balance will fix all the problem, but the fact that it incredibly hard to reach isn't an issue. And we arent even talking about the other 2 points you ignored.

[Kaylia]

I think this would be more accurate. I don't believe for a minute that Guildleves were intended to be the primary way to earn exp/skill.

Not even related to what I said. Try again.

Guildleves are still to this day the only activities that has some sort of direction in the game. It doesnt matter if they are meant to be decent xp or not, the novelty wear off incredibly fast, and you're left with nothing but mindless grinding after.

[edit]
Forgot the broken camp defense every hour...doesnt really change much to what I said though.

[Riposte]

I don't think you got my point. Trying to get it across to you will be a nightmare, I just know it! More complexities does make balancing harder, but it also increases the potential of depth. Making builds become more interesting because there are more choices to make. Even before we find out what sucks, we still get more combinations to think about.

An upside to this is that even though it becomes harder to find a balance, because there are more combinations balance matters less.


EDIT: Quests have as much direction as guildleves, but are scarcer. Perhaps the same could be said of behests.

[miokomioko]

Not even related to what I said. Try again.

You said the game is boring just logging in to do your 8 leves.
Someone responded by saying that group exping is far more productive (and fun) than just doing leves.
You replied with a comment about how people were tired of party exping on crabs from XI and implied that Guildleves were supposed to be an alternative to it.

That's not true and correcting you is completely relevant.

[Hyan]

The classes being gay or not being gay has little bearing on why this game fucking sucks donkey balls

And that has little bearing when(if) they update the game to be something good. What is done is done. If you can't get over it later, good riddance.

These 2 updates won't do it, but we'll see what shape we're in at the end of 2011 at this rate.

"But I won't play because it should have been like this from the start QQ"

[notorious bum]

"But I won't play because it should have been like this from the start QQ"

No shit sherlock, nobody is going to pay for a beta test, even for most fanboys out there. Why should anyone cut these clowns some slack for implementing basic shit that comes with every MMO launch(even f2p), 4+ months later?