FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Hyan]

[I]Strange! Next-gen graphics is causing design limitation...who would have thought. I mean, seriously.

And do you seriously believe they can't make it any better in the future? South Gustaberg was the pinnacle of XI zone development indeed.

Should they just go for the Minecraft graphics because the initial zones won't look as good as the later ones? Bullshit, I say.

[Silenka]

I wonder how many people here play with a controller? I never bother with a mouse until I am messing around with winamp at the same time.

I do / I played FFXI completely with controller, and when my adapter died (I was using a PS2 controller for a long time) and was forced to use the keyboard I was at a loss. It was a LOT harder to play XI with keyboard. In fact, I'm such a controller whore that the only games I enjoy playing on PC with keyboard are simple point and clicks like Diablo II. XIV was fine with controller for the most part, at least in beta when I played. If I ever play XIV again it will be with controller.

[Kaylia]

Should they just go for the Minecraft graphics because the initial zones won't look as good as the later ones? Bullshit, I say.

They had enough time and money to go far beyond Minecraft, that's not even the issue here.

What determine the overall graphic quality is not a linear function of money. You eventually reach a point where you invest a lot for a small gain. So of course no, I'm not preaching for minecraft-like graphics when you're anticipating 500 000+ players. There is however an inbetween when you work under heavy time/money constraints that would be preferable.

And do you seriously believe they can't make it any better in the future? South Gustaberg was the pinnacle of XI zone development indeed.

They could make it even better if they had a future. Do you expect massive update like CoP and ToA if no player is paying the montly fee? The graphic will obviously improve as the artist get more familiar with the tools, but they would also improve even if they had slightly outdated graphic.

Beside, the question is "why is FFXIV so bland if older mmo managed to create better world right away", not "how awesome can FFXIV be after we all invested 200$ in it".

[Katlan]

XIV is a prime example of why being the best isn't always better. Yeah, the game looks really good, but even on beastly computers it still doesn't perform like it should. It's more CPU reliant then most mmo's, and that creates a bottleneck where in areas where it shouldn't. And GPU bottlenecks are everywhere: The difference w/ AO on/off is so minimal that in most places you need to take SS's and compare the pictures side by side to see any difference, yet the amount of GPU this requires is so significant its amazing.

Honestly, if they made the game less graphically intensive I think the finished product would of been better. Hell, their graphics didn't even help the game score good for reviews. It still got a lower score then most mainstream MMO's and XIV could be said to have the best graphics for a mmo to date.

I just laugh because Star Trek Online was considered to be total garbage of a mmo, and XIV got worse reviews lol

[Don Katsu]

XIV is a prime example of why being the best isn't always better. Yeah, the game looks really good, but even on beastly computers it still doesn't perform like it should. It's more CPU reliant then most mmo's, and that creates a bottleneck where in areas where it shouldn't. And GPU bottlenecks are everywhere: The difference w/ AO on/off is so minimal that in most places you need to take SS's and compare the pictures side by side to see any difference, yet the amount of GPU this requires is so significant its amazing.

Honestly, if they made the game less graphically intensive I think the finished product would of been better. Hell, their graphics didn't even help the game score good for reviews. It still got a lower score then most mainstream MMO's and XIV could be said to have the best graphics for a mmo to date.

I just laugh because Star Trek Online was considered to be total garbage of a mmo, and XIV got worse reviews lol

The thing that seems to be "in" for these reviewers is trash talking the game. For example: IGN gave it a 7 for graphics stating that the system requirements are too high to run the game at max settings. Yet they gave Crysis, a game known for it's high system demands a 10.

[Charismatic]

Actually, Crysis requires high system specs to run at max settings but runs well at lower settings without being sluggish on many lower end machines... unlike FFXIV.

[Kaylia]

The thing that seems to be "in" for these reviewers is trash talking the game. For example: IGN gave it a 7 for graphics stating that the system requirements are too high to run the game at max settings. Yet they gave Crysis, a game known for it's high system demands a 10.

Crysis also hd a decent physics engine, ran on a broad score of pc, looked better than FFXIV, and was released 2-3 years before. I don't think both are comparable (different genre), but system demands isn't the only issue here.

I agree the review were a bit harsh, but I've seen many people complaint about the bland environment outside city. It doesnt matter how awesome your texture are, if a many players don't like your style, you won't score well.

[Alderaan]

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...c000fe3ce2d982

Another 30 days.

[Katlan]

The thing that seems to be "in" for these reviewers is trash talking the game. For example: IGN gave it a 7 for graphics stating that the system requirements are too high to run the game at max settings. Yet they gave Crysis, a game known for it's high system demands a 10.

It's because Crysis was/is extremely well optimized for a large shift in systems, and it didn't stress test your system while playing either. The reasons reviews are trashing XIV's graphics is because they are just pretty and not well optimized at all. Furthermore, while I will agree some reviewers were a bit harsh, but XIV is bland. It's pretty, but just bland at the same time. Environments and stuff look great, but there is no diversity.

[Lucavi]

The thing that seems to be "in" for these reviewers is trash talking the game. For example: IGN gave it a 7 for graphics stating that the system requirements are too high to run the game at max settings. Yet they gave Crysis, a game known for it's high system demands a 10.

Optimization, optimization, optimization. Crysis ran excellent on lower-end PCs when the settings were turned down. FFXIV runs like trash on anything that isn't top of the line even on lesser settings.

Grades for graphics isn't all about how pretty it looks, but also takes into account optimization, the range of the graphics, ect.

Don't be so quick to slander the judging process.

[Hyan]

The graphic will obviously improve as the artist get more familiar with the tools, but they would also improve even if they had slightly outdated graphic.

So why not have it like this? Going from good(w/ copy/paste) to good(w/o copy/paste) is better than going from outdated(no copy/paste) to outdated(no copy/paste?

At least I think so.

Also, I don't think graphics were this game's problem from the beginning. It lies somewhere else, and I doubt worse graphics would have done much to change that.

ANYWAY. PS3 release goes gold:

http://scrawlfx.com/2010/11/final-fa...s-gold-for-ps3

It's funny but I think they should stall it 'till March still. It's more valuable than just a different version of the game at this point.

[Elrina]

ANYWAY. PS3 release goes gold:

http://scrawlfx.com/2010/11/final-fa...s-gold-for-ps3

It's funny but I think they should stall it 'till March still. It's more valuable than just a different version of the game at this point.

So wait, I still haven't heard anybody mention anything about a review from Famitsu yet, despite it now being near two months and twice the requested wait time for a published review. But they're the ones announcing that the PS3 release has gone gold?

I thought Tanaka was being condescending and not all that happy with the changes he's being forced to make in those interviews, but why did he neglect to mention this? In fact, (pause as I go looking) ahhh, I see my mistake, he doesn't say it's gone gold for PS3, but close enough.

Eurogamer: Is the PS3 version still on course for release in March 2011?

Hiromichi Tanaka: Our priority is to bring satisfaction to Windows players, so we're working hard on that. But as soon as we feel that's done, we will focus on the PS3 version.

That being said, the Windows version is working on PS3 at the moment. We're focusing on optimisation and adjusting the balance as well as fixing all the bugs. We would like to bring it to PS3 players as soon as possible.

I took that to mean that they were making sure that it was up to par on the PC before finishing and releasing the PS3, originally. I missed that he says that it's working on the PS3 and that they're just working on fixing bugs and what they call optimization. I was confused, because I hadn't been thinking of the PS3 version as the "Windows version running on PS3". Now I'm not surprised at all that the game has gone gold.

They'll still probably be waiting for March to actually release it, and there will just be a substantial patch on release day. I agree, and I think they know, that releasing it before the big early '11 patch(es?) would be a mistake at this point.

[Riposte]

Famitsu doesn't do PC reviews. This is why there are barely any JP reviews on FFXIV.

[Elrina]

That would explain it. I was wondering how they were justifying no review, but I guess that makes it fairly easy.

[Lucavi]

Its a shame. I wanted to see them attempt to justify giving XIV a 36/40.

[miokomioko]

I'm surprised they are implying that the PS3 version might even be delayed because of this fiasco.

[Hyan]

Priorization. Just like I would throw a guess that there were some main scenario/class quests planned for this December patch, but they decided to focus on other issues (or type of content) for the time being.

They have something to prove for the PC audience after all.

[Kaylia]

So why not have it like this? Going from good(w/ copy/paste) to good(w/o copy/paste) is better than going from outdated(no copy/paste) to outdated(no copy/paste?

At least I think so.

Also, I don't think graphics were this game's problem from the beginning. It lies somewhere else, and I doubt worse graphics would have done much to change that.

The world is not "good", it's fucking dull. Subjective? Maybe, but you cant deny that the world feel empty outside the city gate.


And considering they did have many issues porting the game on ps3 because of the ram, you can't minimize the impact it had on the development.

[Hyan]

The world is not "good", it's fucking dull. Subjective? Maybe, but you cant deny that the world feel empty outside the city gate.

And you are saying that they couldn't have made the world more lively and have good graphics at the same time? It's a stretch.

Either way, I'll be surprised if it stays that way. Especially now that they have heard some outside insight.

If it's this way initially, but picks up later, sounds good to me. It's not like I planned to play this game for only one month anyway. Long term is more important.

[Kaylia]

And you are saying that they couldn't have made the world more lively and have good graphics at the same time? It's a stretch.

Either way, I'll be surprised if it stays that way. Especially now that they have heard some outside insight.

If it's this way initially, but picks up later, sounds good to me. It's not like I planned to play this game for only one month anyway. Long term is more important.

It would have been possible if they had pumped more money into FFXIV's development, but that's not a real solution. Simply pushing the deadline wouldnt solve anything either since the competition will only improve from that point (beside, if you don't want last year graphic, you wouldnt want this year graphic next year).

Anywa, can you tell me where in the development something went wrong? What make you think they could have done better with the current graphics? It's not like they could cut down on server/networks code or the already lacking gameplay.