FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Lucavi]

Work, work, work. That's how you earn a paycheck, Tanaka. Get to it!

[Kaylia]

I have to agree with you here. I always found it odd that some leves talk about us fighting off dodos that steal food from farmers, or other monsters attacking nearby villages....yet...these villages don't exist. There arnt even tents around outside of a camp.

I think that's why I usually enjoy traditional quest-based mmos. The system will force developer to fill every corner of the map with something interesting and meaningful before releasing the game. Maybe the world end up being smaller and more condensed, but at least, there is always something to see.

It makes sense for the run through Uldah to showcase the same type of environmental texture, but again I agree that the lack of transition is very abrupt. Even if they had just put some vines coming out of that small narrow entrance into Grid to show what you were coming into. It is a very harsh jolt via the cutscene.

It makes sense if you compare it to real life proportion, but that's not particularly fun in a game imo. You need to bring the "fantasy" part to life everywhere the player go, not just within the city gate.

If you're hunting scenery like I do, is there any point to ever go offtrack? There is next to no landmark that can be explored. The old abandoned ruin on the side of the road? The oasis town? The snowy peak that let you see both the map ahead and the one before? The unique lake or river? That's what bother me the most about FFXIV. Every other mmo I played managed to fill this need to a certain extent, but FFXIV did not.

[bruiser]

exactly, that memory excuse they gave will only work for the casual gamer audience who know jack about game design. Its as if that pretty sculpt tool they were showing off in the youtube vids doesn't exist for their map editor, wtf?

How much do you know about game development? Personally, I'm a programmer working for a major game company. Memory limitations are real. Fact. PS3 limitations are even more real. Also fact.

[Meresgi]

How much do you know about game development? Personally, I'm a programmer working for a major game company. Memory limitations are real. Fact. PS3 limitations are even more real. Also fact.

Bum is a forum poster on the internet. Fuck your degree and profession. Obviously he knows more then you do!

[Hyan]

Just let 99% of the geniuses here direct an MMO and it will be a massive success. Fact.

[Kaylia]

Just let 99% of the geniuses here direct an MMO and it will be a massive success. Fact.

Would be hard to do worse than FFXIV if they gave you 30 millions and a competant staff. You would be surprised how often people in charge have no idea what's going on in any industry.

[miokomioko]

Just throw in investors and the lack of control over the release date you will have yourself a problem.

[Hyan]

Would be hard to do worse than FFXIV if they gave you 30 millions and a competant staff. You would be surprised how often people in charge have no idea what's going on in any industry.

Do you know what's going on in the industry? What you see is only the tip of the iceberg. OK, you would know not to release the game prematurely... yet it would still suck. These people are not there to only decide the release date. Even if they may not know anything about the particular industry, they know how to be in charge. You don't. I'd even go as far as to say this industry is the hardest to manage out of the creative industries out there. Largest, most expensive projects, unique challenges not seen anywhere else in such a big scope (how even an outside customers voice need to be included when making the company's internal strategy) and the adaptability you need to succeed (even after the product is out in the market, especially when it is out)... I don't envy these people at all. It's not surprising only few manage to be as successful as they need to be.

I hope you were not really serious there. You would fucking suck in their shoes, so would I, and everyone else on this forum too.

[notorious bum]

How much do you know about game development? Personally, I'm a programmer working for a major game company. Memory limitations are real. Fact. PS3 limitations are even more real. Also fact.

Obviously you missed my point and thankfully other's have elaborated upon the GAME DESIGN portion of what my complaint was about. No duh memory limitations are a problem, considering every graphical decision has to go through this check before implementation, but thanks for calling me out on being an expert in which I never alluded to.

I could throw some smartass comment like "programmers don't know shit about game design", which would be correct 90% of the time, but I'd rather not get into debate about who's the better armchair game dev critic on SE's Fail Express.

[bruiser]

Obviously you missed my point and thankfully other's have elaborated upon the GAME DESIGN portion of what my complaint was about. No duh memory limitations are a problem, considering every graphical decision has to go through this check before implementation, but thanks for calling me out on being an expert in which I never alluded to.

I could throw some smartass comment like "programmers don't know shit about game design", which would be correct 90% of the time, but I'd rather not get into debate about who's the better armchair game dev critic on SE's Fail Express.

Ok, well.. the game designers have little if anything to do with how much memory a game takes. So, I'm not sure what your point is, or if you even have one.

[notorious bum]

Ok, now you're just playing into the stereotype that programmers aren't team players lol Game designers design around the limitations imposed on them. Say, they use shitty map building tools and have to build this said map in an extremely time-strict setting, you get lame building blocks repeated in large scale.

Yeah, they have no role in how much memory is alotted, they can't go and talk directly to the programmers and tell them quit writing shitty code so I can build lotsa twisty vines and trees and stuff in this here forest. However, what they do is a direct reflection of the code, the managers, and whether their team is about as efficient as a chinese sweatshop.

[Kaylia]

Do you know what's going on in the industry? What you see is only the tip of the iceberg. OK, you would know not to release the game prematurely... yet it would still suck. These people are not there to only decide the release date. Even if they may not know anything about the particular industry, they know how to be in charge. You don't. I'd even go as far as to say this industry is the hardest to manage out of the creative industries out there. Largest, most expensive projects, unique challenges not seen anywhere else in such a big scope (how even an outside customers voice need to be included when making the company's internal strategy) and the adaptability you need to succeed (even after the product is out in the market, especially when it is out)... I don't envy these people at all. It's not surprising only few manage to be as successful as they need to be.
I hope you were not really serious there. You would fucking suck in their shoes, so would I, and everyone else on this forum too.

Okay okay, FFXIV was the result of many good decisions It's the gremlin's fault if the game sucked.


[edit]
Do you really believe people in the industry are godlike being working on a completely different level than mere mortal like us? I'm not sure where you get the idea that we can't understand the scope of the issue they are dealing with.

[Hyan]

Okay okay, FFXIV was the result of many good decisions It's the gremlin's fault if the game sucked.

They didn't have all that it takes. AND NEITHER DO YOU. You don't have anything it takes to pull off. That's what I'm saying. Stop trolling.

[bruiser]

Okay okay, FFXIV was the result of many good decisions It's the gremlin's fault if the game sucked.


[edit]
Do you really believe people in the industry are godlike being working on a completely different level than mere mortal like us? I'm not sure where you get the idea that we can't understand the scope of the issue they are dealing with.

Of course they're not godlike. But no, you don't understand the scope of the issue they're dealing with.

[Hyan]

Do you really believe people in the industry are godlike being working on a completely different level than mere mortal like us? I'm not sure where you get the idea that we can't understand the scope of the issue they are dealing with.

Do you think I could understand physics in the same scope as you do with my limited (pretty much nonexistant) knowledge?

Does that make you "godlike" compared to me?

It's the same fucking thing here. Study management for X years, work in a company for at least 10 years getting experience... then we'll talk.

You are fucking retarded if you think you can get even close to the same result with your 5 years of MMO gaming experience (LOL). It's not even the same fucking subject. Ít's like saying you could build a rocket after 5 years of studying History.

If you really understood the scope of the issue they deal with, you would never make such retarded claims.

[notorious bum]

Gamers unite, lets make this the best fucking Massively Multi-player Orgasms game ever.

[Ezek]

Same shit different interview, but w/e!

http://www.1up.com/news/final-fantas...producer-wrong



But can you fix design?

Pretty straight talk from the director either way, lol.

Yeah, I definitely said this back in July or August in the controls thread here on BG. It's like SE is completely out of touch with the rest of the world when it comes to designing games outside of the console platform. Controllers are shitty for MMORPGs in the first place (to this day I still think FFXI's controls were completely subpar) and forcing a controller based UI on a game that they released on PC first was a terrible idea.

[Kaylia]

Do you think I could understand physics in the same scope as you do with my limited (pretty much nonexistant) knowledge?

Does that make you "godlike" compared to me?

It's the same fucking thing here. Study management for X years, work in a company for at least 10 years getting experience... then we'll talk.

You are fucking retarded if you think you can get even close to the same result with your 5 years of MMO gaming experience (LOL). It's not even the same fucking subject. Ít's like saying you could build a rocket after 5 years of studying History.

Are you really comparing physics to management? Name me a single mathematicians or physicist who succeeded without studying? I can name you a ton of manager who did well without ever touching a school books. Experience obviously doesn't hurt, but it's by no mean a prerequisite to do well. All you need is smart people with a good grasp of the environment.

[edit]
And shit. How can they manage a mmo if never touched one and don't know shit about programming? Using your reasoning, they shouldnt be able to understand what they are managing.

[miokomioko]

forcing a controller based UI on a game that they released on PC first was a terrible idea.

Even though it was released on PC first... 6 months down the road it's going to probably be primarily played on a console. Given the time constraints and such, I can completely understand why a mouse-focused UI wasn't a huge priority.

Also, fuck using a mouse. I still don't understand using a mouse over a keyboard for anything other than aiming a camera in first-person.

[miokomioko]

I can name you a ton of manager who did well without ever touching a school books.

Succeeding at management without any training/experience = luck.