FFXIV Flame Wars Thread: because ten threads is not enough threads

[Lucavi]

This is the only point I'm going to disagree with you on. We may be hearing PS3 limitations to some extent, and may hear it still for a while (to some extent), but I think the fact that they're now building an entire UI for the mouse+keyboard means that they'll break away from the PS3 limitations eventually and progress the game on the PC.

Maybe. We'll find out soon enough.

[Hyan]

Doubtful.

Although graphically, maybe. They probably need to make separate (at least toned down) textures for PS3 and PC already anyway. But if it involves some type of significant gameplay advantage to PC users.. ain't gonna happen.

One could say the separated UI already offers that advantage, but I think they assume they can make the gap small enough to not matter over time.

[Elrina]

I don't know, they've always been pretty loose with what "gameplay advantage" meant. One obvious example I can think of that will be drastically different in the new UI is inventory management. Even with drag and drop functionality in the current UI, with it's adjustments and improvements, compare a menu driven inventory list ala FFXI or the current one in XIV vs an inventory list in a mouse+keyboard UI. Completely different, and managing inventory and selling things will be significantly easier and faster. In the past, they would have always labeled that as an advantage. Because it is.

Graphics is pretty obvious, they touted the fact that they were pushing the capabilities of current PCs (although how they're doing it is questionable, from what I understand) and they specifically said at one point (iirc) that they wrote the code in a way that would allow them to advance the game in the future. I'm guessing they meant that they can enable DX10/11 and do more with the tech, they're just choosing not to focus on doing that for a while yet. Likely till expansions, when they'll want to be showing improvement.

Anyway, I don't think they'll do anything that will make PC users more effective in combat, or unbeatable in their PvP, nor any other practical and directly influencing gameplay advantage. But I wouldn't be surprised if they add some form of content that they would have to adjust on the PS3 in a way that it made it more difficult or different to do, or just didn't put it on there at all, 4~5+ years from now.

I'm not suggesting it will happen soon, I'm thinking likely around the third major expansion, assuming they're still doing major expansions at that point. I don't think any sooner would be a comfortable move. At that point I expect the next next-gen systems will be available, so I also wouldn't be surprised to see them port the game onto Sony's next console/whatever then, and saying that it was a necessary move to be able to continue advancing the game properly at that stage in development, and just expect the PS3 players to upgrade if they wanted to continue (continue without any changes or without missing out on any content, not preventing them from playing any of the new content at all). Sort of like how they expected a lot of PC players to upgrade to be able to play now (which many did).

Again, I could very well be very wrong. I'm not trying to say it's fact, just that it's kind of the way I see things going at the moment, and we won't really know for sure till several years down the road when it either happens or it doesn't.

[notorious bum]

You're living in fantasyland on alot of those assumptions. Are we talking about the same company? I mean, just think about how naive it sounds when you look at how they treated FFXI improvements. Do you really think they will even bother with coding shit like DX11??? They're struggling to implement basic functionality lol

[Elrina]

They aren't assumptions, they're guesses, based on on several factors. I am very aware of what they've done in the past, I played XI for my share of years just like most others here. If you don't recall, I was one of the people quite vocal about how shitty a job they had done with FFXIV, and how unlikely it was that they would change their tune based on their current and recent actions and statements.

Yet, it also doesn't change the fact that they are doing things differently. You can call it damage control, for it certainly is at least in part, yet that does not change the fact that we never saw the level of activity and communication we are receiving right now during all the years we played XI. I don't know how they coded the game, how well or sloppy, and don't especially care. In the end, I just care that it works, and does so well enough that it doesn't require growing accustomed to a host of horrible decisions simply for the sake of being able to play it. I was noting something they said about their intentions, and what I guessed one possible thing that they might do as a result of those intentions.

Also, considering the fact that some of the changes are things that, while possibly necessary or almost necessary, are things that many never thought they would make...? Again, I point to the mouse+keyboard UI. Nowhere did I ever read anyone seriously believe that they would put forth the effort to create a completely new UI for PC users. There was talk about why it wouldn't happen, and that people at least wanted what we had adjusted and improved greatly, which they're also doing. Yes, this is the same company that was absolutely terrible in it's communication and implementation of feedback in FFXI, and in it's (release) of FFXIV.

But formulating a reasonable opinion, a guess, based on changes that they have made in their communication and promises of certain updates in the last six weeks is not "living in fantasyland". May it still be unlikely? Sure, I even conceded as much, I could very well be wrong with my assessment. Based on their previous track record, it's more than possible. But is it irrational to consider the possibility of, based on the information they have released in the last several weeks? I don't think so.

[notorious bum]

There's a difference between "communicating with the players" and what they are doing right now which is nothing but an attempt to save their sorry asses from this failship, which they could have avoided altogether if they did EXACTLY that in beta: listen to the playerbase.

[Agito]

I find these butt hurt people in this thread to be quite funny, it's like you guys were raped by a nasty mop.

[Alderaan]

Anyone thinking SE won't revert straight back to their old ways of communicating with their player base after this damage control phase is over are incredibly naive.

[notorious bum]

I find these butt hurt people in this thread to be quite funny, it's like you guys were raped by a nasty mop.

Hard to play the role of butt hurt with low expectations lol Unless you mean those who plunged into this cesspool headfirst and wasted money on it.

[Meresgi]

Hard to play the role of butt hurt with low expectations lol Unless you mean those who plunged into this cesspool headfirst and wasted money on it.

Probably means the people who thought a FFXIV purchase would turn your shit to gold and empower your body into pure energy, then were disappointed it was just like any other MMO launch only more subpar.

[Hyan]

which they could have avoided altogether if they did EXACTLY that in beta

Riiiiiight.

Anyone thinking SE won't revert straight back to their old ways of communicating with their player base after this damage control phase is over are incredibly naive.

Anyone thinking it matters at that point is incredibly naive.

[Elrina]

Hating and bashing SE simply for the sake of it is no more helpful or useful in a discussion or argument than praising them simply because they're SE. Haters and fanboys are both equally biased and unable to look at anything properly unless they step back and look at it rationally, even if not objectively. It's entirely possibly to have legitimate issues with their track record, and bash them for what they've done (and do). But when you're unable to stop and react to new information, assimilate it and factor it into your reasoning in a rational way, you eliminate the purpose in complaining about something in the first place. The point is to engender change or the hope of change, towards something better than what we currently have, as well as vent frustration.

Anyone thinking SE won't revert straight back to their old ways of communicating with their player base after this damage control phase is over are incredibly naive.

Like I said, I could be wrong, and that's entirely possible. I've made a couple posts myself about that very thing. I still am concerned about it, because the way Tanaka comes off in those recent interviews sounds like exactly what he plans to do. But just like the higher ups pushed it out the door before it was done, and it wasn't a decision made by the actual development team, I'm hoping that he won't have a choice in the matter. After the backlash they received after this mockery of a release, and the subsequent money and time they're losing to handle damage control, hopefully they'll insist on this becoming policy from here on out in order to prevent this from happening again.

Anyone thinking it matters at that point is incredibly naive.

I disagree, but we've been over the subject already, so there's not really any point in rehashing it.

[notorious bum]

Don't give me that "haters gonna hate" speech lol The reason why SE deserves more bashing than my usual distaste towards companies releasing bad games is because of the stubborn, proven-arrogance they have towards their playerbase.

The only other company I can think of that I have went in on this hard is probably Sega. I laugh just as hard at the fanboy apologists in that community as in this one. I just don't understand how a gamer in this age can be so forgiving or take the repeated disrespect from a company when there are just too many alternatives.

All this blind faith feels akin to the patriotism nauseaum during the Bush era lol

[Elrina]

Blind faith? Have you read any of my posts from before the comprehensive update notes and information?

I assure you there were plenty, and it's unlikely that you would mistake any of them for blind faith in SE. In fact quite the opposite.

Things change. I never had a problem with how they treated their players regarding any console release, because we got information when we got it and there was no reason to remark other than to "baw this game sucks" or "this game is awesome". I never liked how they treated their players during FFXI, nor initially in beta and immediately surrounding the release of FFXIV. But again, the way they've been talking the last several weeks is different than they've ever done in the past, to my knowledge. There is no example to draw from of when they did it before, and then stopped. Their reasons for extending the trial during the introduction of XI were different, and didn't involve (as far as I know) the kind of public communication they've been showing recently.

Changing an opinion based on new information isn't blind faith. It's making an informed opinion. Continuing to repeat the same opinion despite new information, without factoring in a reasonable explanation of why that new information is invalid, is just being biased or ignorant.

Edit: I can seriously understand being jaded, I really can. I still am myself, honestly. I really didn't like how SE treated players and their game during my time in FFXI, and was really frustrated and pissed off with what the release of XIV was. But things are different, and have been for several weeks now, at least in their communication. Even I'm reserving my final judgement till I see how it's all implemented.

If their "mouse+keyboard UI" is just a different GUI overlay or something and doesn't include the menus/inventory/etc., and they're all still menu driven, then that isn't delivering on the promise. If they fail at the implementation level on a lot of it, and aren't still communicating regularly about how they're going to fix it since the implementation was bad, they aren't delivering. But they're singing a different tune now, and I see no reason why they wouldn't continue when there's so much money at stake for them and they realize they have to put up or lose potentially tens of millions of dollars from subscriptions (over time) that they will no longer have.

I want to play FFXIV. I want to believe it can and will be a good game. I want to believe SE can and will make it a good game. I don't mind bitching, I've done plenty of it myself. I don't mind complaining, I've done that too. There's still plenty reason for it till stuff is actually changed, and there are still issues that haven't been directly addressed yet, even though most of them have. But if you can't at least agree with those first three sentiments, then you have nothing worthwhile to contribute in this section, even in the flame thread.

[Riposte]

1) When a company releases a game you don't like they are disrespecting you.

2) Liking FFXIV is like being pro-Bush/Hitler/etc.

Having no thread would be better than this.

[Charismatic]

Nah, fuck that. Just leave BRP... this thread is perfect and you need to suck eat a dick if you can't handle it.

[Riposte]

As far as trolling goes lol

[Charismatic]

I thought that was the point

[Riposte]

Trolling is bullshit though. There is no reason to harbor it. There would only be less trolling with this thread gone.

[Charismatic]

Trolling is bullshit though.

Tell that to Square-Enix. I mean, releasing this game in this state was the biggest troll of all.