Random Question Thread XV: This Is Not The Sticky You're Looking For

[Byrthnoth]

So the benefit of stacking Sneak attack with Evisceration in Abyssea is minimal, and Thieves should really just be using Sneak Attack whenever it's up? Also looks like (outside of Abyssea) SA-Rudra's is 5-10% better than SA-Evisceration.

Random question:
Dancer vs. Thief, which is a better DD in Abyssea at the moment?

[Tsuko_Asura]

With the value of SA being further depreciated, I can't imagine THF pulling ahead of DNC.

Real question: does it really matter?

[rog]

It's probably fairly close i would think if they're by themselves. In a party, or even with just one other dd, dnc obviously wins because of haste samba.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I can't see it being all that close. It basically comes down to slightly better Eviscerations and SATA vs. a hefty portion of DW, Berserk and DA without giving up any of that DW, and quite a bit better TP gain.

[Byrthnoth]

Well, I don't actually think Dancer is very useful in Abyssea. It doesn't have TH. It can't use a lot of weapons. Their main AoE WS tops out around 1k in my experience (though I've never geared for it specifically). Things aren't really rough enough to warrant bringing a DNC along specifically to tank if you have decent healers. I mean, I could envision a situation where you'd want several good Dancers and nothing else. Take a hypothetical case: Farming La Theine Plateau for gold boxes/time. 3 Dancers + support, Aeolian Edge spam. You can't make ruby, it's less damage than Cleave but has a larger AoE at 100TP in my experience. Anyway, never going to happen. Dancer just isn't a great Abyssea job. For damage when farming, it can't compare to Cleave.

Also, I've found monsters in Abyssea don't have enough HP to justify giving Haste Samba to other people. If you're using single target WSs to build time or something, it's always going to be best to have people split up and take separate monsters. 4k HP targets with 2.5k average damage WSs results in a lot of TP wasted unless you solo (WS + build TP to 100% for the kill).

[Pendulum]

Any info about popping Quetzalli? Whenever I try and find him he is depopped at 100% ;(

[noodles355]

Looking for quickest way to upgrade the OAT drg lance. two of the drops can be bought pretty cheap np, but need help with the baby blobs.

Whats the easiest way to get 10 of these myself? Have Thf and Rdm @ 85 (& Rng+Drg @75) on main and a Whm85 mule. Also have access to friend's acct with 85 Blm/Rdm/Smn/Sch/Dnc/Mnk but would like to do it on just main+mule if possible.

Elementals for colourful is easy, then Lamprey Lord or Shoggoth. They both easy to just dot/nuke+kite? Or dualbox thf tank + whm? Would leech be easier as other can cast agas?
What about blobdingnag? I've read about the fighting it in the water in pashow trick, is that just: you fight it in the water and when it spawns babies they sit there and don't aggro? what about the easiest way to fight it? could you t2t it on rdm with nukes/dots and use the whm mule for the erase/nas/oshi cures? Would the drop rate be shitty without TH on the blobs?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Well, I don't actually think Dancer is very useful in Abyssea. It doesn't have TH. It can't use a lot of weapons. Their main AoE WS tops out around 1k in my experience (though I've never geared for it specifically). Things aren't really rough enough to warrant bringing a DNC along specifically to tank if you have decent healers. I mean, I could envision a situation where you'd want several good Dancers and nothing else. Take a hypothetical case: Farming La Theine Plateau for gold boxes/time. 3 Dancers + support, Aeolian Edge spam. You can't make ruby, it's less damage than Cleave but has a larger AoE at 100TP in my experience. Anyway, never going to happen. Dancer just isn't a great Abyssea job. For damage when farming, it can't compare to Cleave.

Also, I've found monsters in Abyssea don't have enough HP to justify giving Haste Samba to other people. If you're using single target WSs to build time or something, it's always going to be best to have people split up and take separate monsters. 4k HP targets with 2.5k average damage WSs results in a lot of TP wasted unless you solo (WS + build TP to 100% for the kill).

Your last paragraph is exactly why I still think its so useful :s . WHM obviously is still going to have unlimited MP on their side, but Haste Samba is still going to result in faster boxes.

[Yugl]

I'm in this situation as well. The plan is to pin Lamprey and kite Shoggoth. I'm not sure how much DMG Shoggoth's nukes do now since the last time I fought him was before I leveled RDM (i.e. no access to real MDT set).

[Francisco]

Fought Shoggoth 6 times the past two days...

MNK, NIN, BLU, WHM...

BLU basically stunlocked it, MNK and NIN just beat on it... WHM cured, cast Stona and Paralyna.

It was an easy fight, but I'd highly recommend using Poison potions for it anyway. T4 Nukes did anywhere from 700-1000ish, -ga III did 400-700 hitting 3 targets, but rarely went off.

[Atoreis]

Well, I don't actually think Dancer is very useful in Abyssea. It doesn't have TH. It can't use a lot of weapons. Their main AoE WS tops out around 1k in my experience (though I've never geared for it specifically). Things aren't really rough enough to warrant bringing a DNC along specifically to tank if you have decent healers. I mean, I could envision a situation where you'd want several good Dancers and nothing else. Take a hypothetical case: Farming La Theine Plateau for gold boxes/time. 3 Dancers + support, Aeolian Edge spam. You can't make ruby, it's less damage than Cleave but has a larger AoE at 100TP in my experience. Anyway, never going to happen. Dancer just isn't a great Abyssea job. For damage when farming, it can't compare to Cleave.

Also, I've found monsters in Abyssea don't have enough HP to justify giving Haste Samba to other people. If you're using single target WSs to build time or something, it's always going to be best to have people split up and take separate monsters. 4k HP targets with 2.5k average damage WSs results in a lot of TP wasted unless you solo (WS + build TP to 100% for the kill).

Idk from my math DNC with 9%DA/DEXkila and saber dance in a party with haste + marches outparse most DD with empyreal and top gear. Thats assuming DNC have haste Samba and other DD doesnt (lets say we compare trio melee+brd+rdm). Before you start laugh better calc it yourself. I even assumed avg pDIF 1.5 for DNC and 2.0 for other jobs and its still wins or are equal to most top DD with empyreals. So in a party of lets say Ukonvasara WAR, Kannagi NIN, BRD, WHM adding DNC gives best results on zerging NMs. I once made a topic of DNC DD potency in zerg fights and Thorny said its still better if DNC heals and MNK is more reliable cuz of high HP but that was before abyssea. Now with HP buffs and almost unlimited MP DNC can focus on just saber dance + haste samba and once again before you laugh better make a math becouse it may be suprising but its true.

[Nightfyre]

Why the fuck would you assume the other DD isn't getting Haste Samba?

EDIT: OAT or OA3 dagger would be the better choice overall, and why not use valid pDIF values rather than arbitrary ones?

EDIT2: What value were you using for Saber Dance?

[Atoreis]

Why the fuck would you assume the other DD isn't getting Haste Samba?

EDIT: Same question for your DA dagger and making assumptions about pDIF rather than using a remotely functional model.

1. I wanted to check potency od melee job in a trio healer brd melee so thats why dnc has haste samba and other dont
2. First it was comparison of melee jobs with equipped Emps but I add DNC w/o Emps just to check how it will looks in competition.
3. I assumed pDIF becouse in abyssea in can change greatly depending on mobs.

[Nightfyre]

1. I wanted to check potency od melee job in a trio healer brd melee so thats why dnc has haste samba and other dont

That doesn't answer the question. It's a party-wide buff, I don't understand why you wouldn't give it to the other DDs.

3. I assumed pDIF becouse in abyssea in can change greatly depending on mobs.

So make multiple models, fix your Parazonium, give everyone Haste Samba, and stop assuming.

Reiterating question about Saber Dance, was a late edit so you may have missed it.

[Yugl]

That doesn't answer the question. It's a party-wide buff, I don't understand why you wouldn't give it to the other DDs.

How is a DD going to get Haste Samba at 85 when his only PT members are BRD + Healer?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Idk from my math DNC with 9%DA/DEXkila and saber dance in a party with haste + marches outparse most DD with empyreal and top gear. Thats assuming DNC have haste Samba and other DD doesnt (lets say we compare trio melee+brd+rdm). Before you start laugh better calc it yourself. I even assumed avg pDIF 1.5 for DNC and 2.0 for other jobs and its still wins or are equal to most top DD with empyreals. So in a party of lets say Ukonvasara WAR, Kannagi NIN, BRD, WHM adding DNC gives best results on zerging NMs. I once made a topic of DNC DD potency in zerg fights and Thorny said its still better if DNC heals and MNK is more reliable cuz of high HP but that was before abyssea. Now with HP buffs and almost unlimited MP DNC can focus on just saber dance + haste samba and once again before you laugh better make a math becouse it may be suprising but its true.

You must have missed the extremely important part where we all realized Saber Dance was absolutely worthless. His original assessment worked off the precedent that SD granted something ridiculous like an average of ~40% DA.

[Atoreis]

That doesn't answer the question. It's a party-wide buff, I don't understand why you wouldn't give it to the other DDs.


So make multiple models, fix your Parazonium, give everyone Haste Samba, and stop assuming.

Reiterating question about Saber Dance, was a late edit so you may have missed it.

1. What's daggers are best for maximum DD output on DNC?
2. I have chart in excel and I can just change one value and everthing is changing so i dont really need multiply models I can check few pDIFs on this char.
3. Why should I calc other jobs with haste samba if I want to check potency of dnc and you said its not worth to drag this job to abyssea becouse its not useful. DNC with haste samba and saber dance beats or is equal to most DD jobs with Emps so even if Verethragna MNK/nin with haste samba is better then DNC its only means DNC+MNK > DNC+DNC > MNK+MNK.
4. SD from what I know adds +50%da on first minute 40% on 2nd and 30% on half of the 3rd with 5/5 SD merits then you can use it again and back to +50% so I took avg +42%.

[Atoreis]

You must have missed the extremely important part where we all realized Saber Dance was absolutely worthless. His original assessment worked off the precedent that SD granted something ridiculous like an average of ~40% DA.

I must have missed it then :D So why its worthless?

EDIT: Ok, I missed it and only thing I can say now is sorry for lol posts and lets just forgot it has ever happened :D

[Kogenta]

Hello everybody.

Does atmas have chances to drop even if you don't process red !!?
And if yes... does it work for every mob or just for lolatmas?
We got Razed ruin off Pulverizer after a 1h and half attempt to process !! (succesfull) but it was so stressfull i hope to not repeat the experience ever again. Unfortunatly some of my LS members were dead by the time the mob died (a BLM was midcast) :/
SO we'll have to kill it again :D Since i don't want to waste so many stones for just 1 pop (given we need the drops too) i'm considering to spam it until it just drops atma even without !! processing. Obviously if this is possible :<

[CubsWoo]

I see a lot in the Abyssea threads "Empyreans are easy to get, except Tahrongi" - is this because of the need for 4 pop items to get Chloris/Glavoid?