Server Populations

[Dooom]

tbh I'm not sure how you're arriving at the conclusion that this is the fault of the playerbase. After all, if the majority had their wishes granted then there'd be no fatigue system at all.

[Hyan]

No, it is largely SE's fault. They didn't inform us, and they listened to us.

Without the fatigue system... damn, we'd be looking at a grind way beyond Aion's.

[Dooom]

How do you arrive at that conclusion? You seem to be assuming that without fatigue they'd just increase the grind. What is your reasoning or basis for that belief?

[millionsknives]

People seem to forget that if partying (or the game) were fun, grinding wouldn't be a problem...

[Hyan]

Because the point of grind in general is to slow down players from clearing content much faster than the developers can create more.

And with fatigue around, it is irrelevant how much grind there is, because SE can pretty much control the rate of growth through that system directly rather than through the grind.

Both systems are designed to slow down our progress, which is important in a game where a large part of the profit comes from subscriptions.

[dubs]

All i am getting is "The server is experiencing unusually heavy traffic. Please try again later."

Wondering if they have blocked my IP or if everyone is getting this?

[Charismatic]

I'm not sure what exactly gave you that impression though.

Guess you don't read your own posts.

Hint: I didn't come to this conclusion based on reading any single post.

[Hyan]

Guess you don't read your own posts.

Hint: I didn't come to this conclusion based on reading any single post.

Yeah, I don't know why you bring it up here though?

Whatever.

[Priran]

How do you arrive at that conclusion? You seem to be assuming that without fatigue they'd just increase the grind. What is your reasoning or basis for that belief?

Hyan likes to make stuff up and pretend it's factual. There's nothing to suggest fatigue or the level curve were adjusted due to complaints. Rather, Hyan (and a lot of other people) rationalized Fatigue by saying it was a tradeoff for an easier leveling curve (when SE never said anything to that effect) and are looking for a scapegoat now that we can see that isn't what it does at all.

[SephYuyX]

100 fucking thousand skill points to get a rank to 50?
FUCK that. SE has another thing coming if they think im going to grind that much when 1k points is a bitch enough as it is.

Edit: And yes, thats 100k just to get from 49 to 50. Talk about a shit ton from 1 to 50.

[bruiser]

It's not that much different than 11 was. The problme is that right now it's really rare to get more than 5-6k / hour. I imagine that once more content is in the game, party levelling is adjusted, etc it won't be that unusual to get 12-15k / hour.

[Jesifromgaruda]

It's not that much different than 11 was. The problme is that right now it's really rare to get more than 5-6k / hour. I imagine that once more content is in the game, party levelling is adjusted, etc it won't be that unusual to get 12-15k / hour.

So... 100k SP even at 15k/hour is pretty brutal. Especially when you think about FFXI and the XP ranges and XP/hour.

And when you think that the level cap is most likely going to be raised, that's an insane amount of grinding.

[bruiser]

Ehh, 7 hours to get from Lv. 74-75 doesn't seem like that big a deal to me in FFXI. Level caps will be raised, but why are we talking about what the game is gonna be like 2.5 years from now? All bets are off at that point, everything will be totally different.

[Lucavi]

Because the point of grind in general is to slow down players from clearing content much faster than the developers can create more.

And with fatigue around, it is irrelevant how much grind there is, because SE can pretty much control the rate of growth through that system directly rather than through the grind.

Both systems are designed to slow down our progress, which is important in a game where a large part of the profit comes from subscriptions.

We've been saying that there are better ways to do this since before fatigue was even implemented (Alpha), and yet they kept the system intact. Nobody is buying your notion that it is somehow the player's fault for suggesting things that they want in a game, and that SE is also at fault for listening to players that don't know what's good for them.

Here's a tip: just because an idea pops into your head, doesn't mean its true. I'd love to hear a group of developers at a meeting (for ANY medium, as if MMOs are somehow different from other forms of entertainment) cursing themselves for listening to players and cursing players for having an expressed interest in the direction a game they'll be paying for each month takes.

@Prirain: You're absolutely right. Hyan and others tried to fortell that Surplus (BONUS! I should say) was somehow necessary to control the pace of players, and now want to turn around and say its the player's fault for whining about something that was shitty then and shitty now. You can't polish shit, Hyan, and you certainly can't blame others for the fact that the shit still smells like shit, even after the shitter tried to spruce it up.

There were and are a plethora of ways to better manage player growth through the initial part of the game. SE chose a shitty way then, we complained about how shitty it was, and they made a knee-jerk attempt to change it, thus making it equally as shitty as it was before. Keep trying to spin it so that its somehow our fault that a company full of grown men fucked up and are still fucking up.

[Hyan]

Hyan likes to make stuff up and pretend it's factual. There's nothing to suggest fatigue or the level curve were adjusted due to complaints. Rather, Hyan (and a lot of other people) rationalized Fatigue by saying it was a tradeoff for an easier leveling curve (when SE never said anything to that effect)and are looking for a scapegoat now that we can see that isn't what it does at all.

I'm sorry to tell you that Komoto did say in his surplus post during the beta that this is exactly what it's supposed to do. He simply echoed what I had been saying for some time already.

Nobody is buying your notion that it is somehow the player's fault for suggesting things that they want in a game, and that SE is also at fault for listening to players that don't know what's good for them.

There are millions of people in the world that don't buy the notion that world wasn't created 6000 years ago. What's your point?

And the sad thing is, the more biased you are the less likely you are to listen to reason.

[Meresgi]

Rather, Hyan (and a lot of other people) rationalized Fatigue by saying it was a tradeoff for an easier leveling curve (when SE never said anything to that effect) and are looking for a scapegoat now that we can see that isn't what it does at all.

It's an actual common fact that the leveling curve IS what is is in MMOs to halt players from blasting to end game within a week of launch. If you don't believe that then i'm not sure what rock you've been living under all this time. Every MMO on the market uses a system like this, if it's not fatigue, it's a steep xp grind curve, or some other method if corralling players along. The fatigue system isn't even that bad, 4 people from my linkshell just continue to level through red fatigue, and have yet to actually hit the 0% cap (they are around rank 37 or 38 now I believe).

100 fucking thousand skill points to get a rank to 50?
FUCK that. SE has another thing coming if they think im going to grind that much when 1k points is a bitch enough as it is.

Are you soloing? It's easy as hell to rake in 6-8k SP per hour. So say you do 6k per hour that's 16hrs total to level from 49 to 50, which is 4 days if you only grind 4hrs a day. That's really not that bad at all.


I still don't see the big deal with surplus and fatigue. I've hit it a total of once, and only into the yellow, while grinding for an entire day and wracking up SP on crabs where we were doing an easy 7k/hr. Then I went to craft, came back the next day and my surplus was gone and went back to leveling. I'll grind for a few hours, then spend a few hours lvling crafting. The only class I can see being hurt by surplus are DoH/DoL classes who are only leveling their one job and don't gain as much from swapping off.

And does it matter that it's 100k from 49 to 50 right now? are you in a hurry to hit 50 so you can sit in town and not do any end game content? We have at least till March before we see any content really, other then that NM patch...which won't be too much content i'm sure, so it's not like you need to rush ahead of everyone just to be stuck at the same red light we'll all get to.

[Tezz]

Roughly 2 months until NM's are added. I don't see any rush currently. Assume you are at least rank 30 by the end of Oct. if you got a level a day, you could hit 50 mid-nov. That still leaves a whole month left, so you don't even have to get a level every single day.

I'm not going to lie though either, it is annoying & very grind heavy currently, not even considering crafts/durability.
We do know, currently, the highest level person was rank 46 conjurer with many 30-40's behind him, and SE did say they'd be focusing more
on endgame content once more players started hitting cap.

NM's also, probably won't end up being considered "Endgame" for long either, if at all. Not getting any hopes up, as usual.

[Alderaan]

It's mostly due to the fact that SE couldn't come up with a better way to make the "grind" fun.

Can't include fun instances to run with groups, all every level range, when the skill ups are random as fuck.

Or was that the intended purpose of the Leve's?

[Hyan]

Or was that the intended purpose of the Leve's?

I would assume so.

I don't agree that instances would be the answer however. At least the core gameplay should happen in the open world if the secondary events won't.

They actually have all the building pieces in place to make it "fun", but they've yet to made proper use of them.

[SephYuyX]

Ehh, 7 hours to get from Lv. 74-75 doesn't seem like that big a deal to me in FFXI. Level caps will be raised, but why are we talking about what the game is gonna be like 2.5 years from now? All bets are off at that point, everything will be totally different.

It was never 7 hours, 5 hours at max, and thats if your pt sucks. It only takes a little over an hour now to get a level past 75. You can go from 80 to 85 in one sitting easily. So applying your XI logic back to XIV it will take 10 hours to get to just level 50. Unless they plan on ramping up the XP severly thats going to be a world of hurt to get to lvl 70 in XIV.

Thats fucking ridiculous.