What's Better?

[isladar]

Rocl:To avoid the unecessary creation of thousands of simple gear comparison threads, we'll attempt to make this your generic gear question thread. If it doesn't work, I blame Suiram. If it does work, all credit goes to me. So let us begin with the OP's question:


Blau Dolch or Stylet??

Original Thread: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/46517-whats-better.html

The Second Thread

The Thread Formally Known As The Third

WAS IST BETTERSTEIN IV

Jem and the Holograms vs The Misfits V

pDIF to Your Mother VI

Blitz alwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalways VII

[Genrye]

Blitz alwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalwaysalways

<3

[Genrye]

Heres a decent question to start the thread off:

3.5 attack 2%DA vs. 6STR for drakes

[Nightfyre]

Total STR before the differences?

Should be the latter given Bradamante's low base damage but best to be sure.

[Genrye]

131 str before ( no food no hasso drg/sam)

[Xajii]

As I'm no DRG I unfortunately can't answer that but will tack another question set to the list.

Looking at rethinking my dull ass Guillotine onry DRK. Question on WS gear:

Ultimatum/Pole/---/Bomblet
NHead/Gorget/Aesir/Assault
Haub+1/????/Rajas/Toreador's
Forager's/Virtuoso/Black/Ares

(jfc I am missing a couple of those pieces but consider them obtainable within a week or two)

So big question is what hands? AF+1? Can't get Temenos to drop currently but if I found that piece would that be the best? No ares hands or a way to get them really. Currently use Taru RSE2, 6 STR 65 HP.

Set has a lot of +42 ACC and +17 DEX (my Forager's has a cute +1DEX augment), not counting the gorget. My damage as it stands is pretty low so I'm looking for ways to increase. One thing that comes to mind is Fierce Belt (+15 ATK) instead of Virtuoso. I don't use a Flame ring on WS, not sure if should.

Any other glaring criticism of the set is welcome, I do not pretend to be a great melee.

For TP, what's a good earring besides Abyssal to go with brutal? and Blitz onry no matter what?

[Moridam]

post-75 SJ for white mage. /sch or /rdm? generally thinking of endgame events, not so much merits or exp, if it makes a difference.

edit- i guess that case depends on the potency of convert as /rdm, which is obviously pure speculation right now. it's probably a lot to ask, but if anyone can crank out a rough approximation based around full vs. half potency, i'd appreciate the hell out of it.

[Nightfyre]

131 str before ( no food no hasso drg/sam)

76 base damage

131 STR = 53 WSC

In a no attack buff situation with pizza, your attack would be around 470. 2% DA would be about a 1.83% increase assuming 9% base DA, 3.5 attack another ~0.85% if we assume it's 4 attack. Total of 2.68% increase.

6 STR would bump you up to 56 WSC and also adds 1.5 fSTR. This is more than a 2.72% increase when fSTR is less than...

133.5+x=(129+x)*1.0268
1.043=0.0268x
x=38.9

Or always, given that fSTR caps way lower than that and the mob would need to have negative VIT for it to even be possible...

If you use Hasso you only get 2 WSC from the 6 STR and your attack goes up a bit, devaluing the attack option ever so slightly.

135.5+x=(132+x)*1.0267
x comes out to ~0.

So fSTR would have to be unrealistically low if Hasso is up for the STR option to win. If it's 3 attack then you'd still be looking at an unrealistically high mob VIT, so the attack/DA option wins here. I know you like to Hasso like a baws, so let's double check the Hasso scenario again in a more attack-heavy scenario... add Chaos Roll for 17%, attack/DA is now a 2.53% increase. fSTR comes out to 6, so if the mob has 112 or more VIT then the STR option wins... provided you're getting the full 4 attack. In reality it could be higher due to attack being more valuable as mob level increases. If it's 3 attack, the STR wins pretty much everywhere.

Conclusion: Shit is horribly situational. Noct Helm when Hasso is up and you're getting 4 attack from it, Heca +1 for everything else.

@ Xavii: As I recall AF+1 hands are great if you need the accuracy; if not, there's Hecatomb Mittens.

[Dathus]

Currently using this on my COR:

Spoiler: show

input /equip feet "Cor. Bottes +1";
input /equip legs "Enkidu's Subligar";
input /equip head "Anwig Salade";
input /equip ranged "Martial Gun";
input /equip ammo "Steel Bullet";
input /equip main "Vulcan's Staff";
input /equip neck "Light Gorget";
input /equip sub "Axe Grip";
input /equip ear1 "Drone Earring";
input /equip hands "Blood Fng. Gnt.";
input /equip ring1 "Rajas Ring";
input /equip ring2 "Flame Ring";
input /equip back "Amemet Mantle +1";
input /equip waist "Commodore Belt";
input /equip ear2 "Triumph Earring";
input /equip body "Corsair's Frac +1";

Couple curious questions.
Magnatus with +7 DMG or Martial on Slug/Deto? Enkidu legs or Commodore legs?

[Radec]

post-75 SJ for white mage. /sch or /rdm? generally thinking of endgame events, not so much merits or exp, if it makes a difference.

edit- i guess that case depends on the potency of convert as /rdm, which is obviously pure speculation right now. it's probably a lot to ask, but if anyone can crank out a rough approximation based around full vs. half potency, i'd appreciate the hell out of it.

Purely on MP usage, any added abilities ignored (sleeps, dispels, etc)

Assume 1000hp 1000mp.

RDM
Convert is 1000mp-(CureV, 135MP) every 10Min +86.5mp/minute
Refresh is 150MP over 2.5M, costs 40MP. +110/2.5M, +44MP/minute
net: ~+130mp/minute over no sub

SCH

Light Arts is -10% cost, soo.. MP Spent/10m *0.1MP saved, /10 = +MP/minute
2 Cases for Books:
Use 1 every 2m on Cure5, 122(10% from LA) to 68, 54mp/2m = +27MP/Minute
Use them to cover 3 or 4 hastes with accession (2 hastes frees time but costs more), 36x3-4 > 80, saves 64 or 28 MP every 3m - but only uses 3+1/3 books in 10Min, assume the other 1+2/3 are used on CureV. (9 to 21)+9MP per minute saved
Sublimation: Takes 6.25m to charge at 2/tic, then 30sec recast. +2/tic for 6.25/6.75 = +37mp/minute
Recasting Stoneskin: 27mp/5m, -5mp/minute
Taking the CureV's only case since it's a little better MP/minute.
+37+27-5+(Total Spent MP*0.1)/10m
59+(MP*0.1)/10 for sch.

You need to spend, then:
MP = (130-59)*10/0.1 = 7100MP in 10 minutes to break even.

Note ConserveMP was not counted for SCH, call it 700mp/minute before arts/books.

Edit: Oh yeah, Half potency. 1000hp > 500mp, -135 for cureV 36.5mp/min
MP = (80-59)*100 = 2000MP in 10, 200/minute is very low.

[Cream Soda]

76 base damage

131 STR = 53 WSC

In a no attack buff situation with pizza, your attack would be around 470. 2% DA would be about a 1.83% increase assuming 9% base DA,

Wouldn't it be less than this? I was under the impression only the first two hits of a ws had the chance to DA rather than all the hits and only being able to do it twice

[Xajii]

Purely on MP usage, any added abilities ignored (sleeps, dispels, etc)

Assume 1000hp 1000mp.

RDM
Convert is 1000mp-(CureV, 135MP) every 10Min +86.5mp/minute
Refresh is 150MP over 2.5M, costs 40MP. +110/2.5M, +44MP/minute
net: ~+130mp/minute over no sub

SCH math etc

I personally found some of the stats in this post very confusing but it's worth nothing that Refresh is above lvl 40 so the RDM maths won't be accurate for June update.

Also to answer the WHM question outside of the realm of MP usage alone, RDM sub at 40 still offers next to nothing besides Convert whereas SCH is giving you a lot of things to work with across all of its JAs. If it's only a half Convert then yeah pretty much not worth it currently.

Nightfyre thanks for the input still looking for more specific DRK gear talk,. Wondering about alternatives to both Heca and AF+1, stacking Attack seems to matter more than stacking STR, anyone use weird shit like tarasque+1 or somethin? Still a bunch of questions up there in my first post too.

[Byrthnoth]

Wouldn't it be less than this? I was under the impression only the first two hits of a ws had the chance to DA rather than all the hits and only being able to do it twice

That's true. So if you have a 4-hit weaponskill like Drakesbane, you're looking at increasing the number of hits from 4.18 (9% DA) to 4.22 (11% DA).

So 2% DA is a less-than-1% increase in damage on Drakesbane.

[Sin Harvest]

Bard debuffing feet, oracles or goliard........

[Dooom]

Oracles. 5 m.acc vs. 2 m.acc and 4 chr, unless your debuff set is disgustingly low on chr then the chr on Goliard isn't gonna equate to 4 m.acc, so Oracles seem like the safer choice to me.

[Genrye]

That's true. So if you have a 4-hit weaponskill like Drakesbane, you're looking at increasing the number of hits from 4.18 (9% DA) to 4.22 (11% DA).

So 2% DA is a less-than-1% increase in damage on Drakesbane.

So... stick with heca +1?

[Nightfyre]

So... stick with heca +1?

Yep. I forgot that it only procs off the first two hits, thought it could proc off any but only twice at most.

[Genrye]

Cool, i was going to pick up both, noct for drakes, heca+1 for wheeling, but ill just keep heca then.

Everything went better than expected.

[Carrilei]

Currently using this on my COR:

Spoiler: show

input /equip feet "Cor. Bottes +1";
input /equip legs "Enkidu's Subligar";
input /equip head "Anwig Salade";
input /equip ranged "Martial Gun";
input /equip ammo "Steel Bullet";
input /equip main "Vulcan's Staff";
input /equip neck "Light Gorget";
input /equip sub "Axe Grip";
input /equip ear1 "Drone Earring";
input /equip hands "Blood Fng. Gnt.";
input /equip ring1 "Rajas Ring";
input /equip ring2 "Flame Ring";
input /equip back "Amemet Mantle +1";
input /equip waist "Commodore Belt";
input /equip ear2 "Triumph Earring";
input /equip body "Corsair's Frac +1";

Couple curious questions.
Magnatus with +7 DMG or Martial on Slug/Deto? Enkidu legs or Commodore legs?

Martial.

If you really want to get into Enkidu's Subligar v. Commodore Culottes..

Use Enkidu's if taking advantage of the sTP. If not, you need to be aware of your fSTR2 and WSC statuses. Enkidu's Subligar is simple enough - you can count on it contributing 2 fSTR2. With Commodore, you better have a clue as to what's going on. 3 STR will either be 1 or 2 fSTR2. 3 AGI will either be 0 or 1 WSC (most likely 1).

As you can see, you can come up with less, equal, or more combined fSTR2/WSC. If you don't care to dig that deep, Commodore should barely win out in most situations when disregarding the sTP.

[Fredjan]

post-75 SJ for white mage. /sch or /rdm? generally thinking of endgame events, not so much merits or exp, if it makes a difference.

Instead of doing all the math since someone did it already, I'll summarize it this way:

/SCH, period, especially if it gets Accession.

/RDM'd have to have 1:1 convert to be even/better - more than likely it'll be half. If they make it 1:1, they should un-nerf Utsusemi: Ni subbed so it's 4 shadows, un-nerf Meditate subbed so it's 100 TP, un-nerf Souleater subbed... see a pattern here?

I, along with many others I've talked to, heavily doubt SE'll keep it at 1:1. No, it doesn't matter if RDM can merit convert recast, SAM can merit meditate recast, as well as DRK can merit souleater recast, etc. They're still adjusted to not be as potential as they are as the job is when it's your main, I don't see how Convert'll be any different.

Not all White Mages have a ~1:1 HP/MP ratio either, nor do all White Mages have 1000 HP and MP, yes, I realize that was an 'assumption' in the math, it'll depend on the WHM itself how useful /RDM really is.

You also have to spend most of your MP to benefit entirely from Convert (going by current use of it, if it's half, not so much). You do not for SCH's Sublimation.