Sea Gorgets

[Norellicus]

k so all my searching has only turned up people talking about their WS gear and someone inevitably will say the very thing that has sent me searching: 'PCC > Gorget'

Can anyone link me some data that explains why this is so? I was under the impression that it was just the opposite for a very, very long time.

Edit: lol, evidently posts get pruned over time in certain forums cause I should have about 20 >_>

[Tajin]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17450 ?


its on the first page too

[Norellicus]

Despite the topic, I only found anecdotal mention (as usual) in that thread, no data. It seems to focus more on the DEX/Crit discussion.

Edit: OK, I finally found Nagimaki's post on page...11? I had heard people reference some of his work on the subject but couldn't find it. Is this all there is thus far?

[Amele]

alot of that thread was lost in the server rollback, sadly.

basically, without taking the time to re-reference everything, Nagamaki found evidence within the margin of error (so inconclusive) that WS gorgets were only applied to the first hit of a multiple hit weaponskill.

*if* this is the case, then PCC will provide a bigger bonus to weaponskill with multiple hits than a weaponskill gorget will, (although the point of inflection is probably closer to 'more than 2 (or 3) hits' - we would need to do many many more controlled tests to determine this if the initial hypothesis does turn out to be true.)

basically: for jobs with single hit weaponskills, there's absolutely no contest whatsoever, the gorget is better. for rampage, penta, asuran, etc. it's possible that a PCC is better.

[cassiraa]

WS gorgets PDIF Damage Modifier seem to be applied to the first hit of a multiple hit weaponskill.

The question is does the Accuracy apply to the weapon skill, or is the WS Accuracy bonus from the gorget also only to the first hit. This is significantly more difficult to discern...

[Norellicus]

lol, relegated to the newbie section

Thanks for the info, regardless. I'll probably get a gorget anyway, since I can't see it hurting to have around. (and playing w/ BLM in sea is fun!)

[Yutuyu]

I'm honestly very skeptical about this conclusion. According to all I've read the Seagorgets only raise the fTP modifier by 10%. On a WS like Gekko which naturally has a 150 > 200 > 250 progression, whenever you WS with Hagun at 100% TP, the gorget should only raise your damage by 5% (10% is 5% of 200%). Yet in the tests I did, it seemed to raise it by a flat 10%.

I realize some people may say, show me the evidence. But my main question at this point is, if this behavior I observed is true (assume this), does that disprove the fTP mod? Or am I misunderstanding. Is it a 10% bonus to the fTP itself, not +10% fTP?

[Amele]

WS gorgets PDIF Damage Modifier seem to be applied to the first hit of a multiple hit weaponskill.

The question is does the Accuracy apply to the weapon skill, or is the WS Accuracy bonus from the gorget also only to the first hit. This is significantly more difficult to discern...

first, it's an fTP modifier, not a PDIF modifier.

second fTP has *only ever* applied to the first hit of a multihit weaponskill (this is why rampage doesn't suck and a double attacked Tachi: Gekko isn't actually double damage.)

nagamaki wasn't testing fTP mods, we knew all of this already and it wasn't in question.

[Gerion]

I'm honestly very skeptical about this conclusion. According to all I've read the Seagorgets only raise the fTP modifier by 10%. On a WS like Gekko which naturally has a 150 > 200 > 250 progression, whenever you WS with Hagun at 100% TP, the gorget should only raise your damage by 5% (10% is 5% of 200%). Yet in the tests I did, it seemed to raise it by a flat 10%.

I realize some people may say, show me the evidence. But my main question at this point is, if this behavior I observed is true (assume this), does that disprove the fTP mod? Or am I misunderstanding. Is it a 10% bonus to the fTP itself, not +10% fTP?

Yes, that is a misunderstanding. Sea Gorgets raise the fTP modifier by .1, not 10%, and this is applied to the actual multiplier. For example, if you WS with 100 TP, Tachi: Gekko has a 1.5 fTP mod, but if you have gorget, it has a 1.6 fTP mod. The amount of TP you have affects the fTP mod, but they are not one in the same.

[VZX]

I'm honestly very skeptical about this conclusion. According to all I've read the Seagorgets only raise the fTP modifier by 10%. On a WS like Gekko which naturally has a 150 > 200 > 250 progression, whenever you WS with Hagun at 100% TP, the gorget should only raise your damage by 5% (10% is 5% of 200%). Yet in the tests I did, it seemed to raise it by a flat 10%.

I realize some people may say, show me the evidence. But my main question at this point is, if this behavior I observed is true (assume this), does that disprove the fTP mod? Or am I misunderstanding. Is it a 10% bonus to the fTP itself, not +10% fTP?

Yes, that is a misunderstanding. Sea Gorgets raise the fTP modifier by .1, not 10%, and this is applied to the actual multiplier. For example, if you WS with 100 TP, Tachi: Gekko has a 1.5 fTP mod, but if you have gorget, it has a 1.6 fTP mod. The amount of TP you have affects the fTP mod, but they are not one in the same.

Hmm I think he meant that, instead of 5% increase in WS damage (.1/2.00) in theory, he got 10% increase in WS damage when using Hagun.

Discrepancy maybe?

[evilpaul]

So they provide an (fTP * 1.1) effect instead of (fTP + 0.1)? I don't think I can test meaningfully with my available jobs only having a Breeze Gorget.

[Charismatic]

No clue what you guys are talking about here, but does fTP have anything to do with accuracy? Because I think the poster here is asking about the increased Accuracy part

[Kaelan]

WS gorgets PDIF Damage Modifier seem to be applied to the first hit of a multiple hit weaponskill.

The question is does the Accuracy apply to the weapon skill, or is the WS Accuracy bonus from the gorget also only to the first hit. This is significantly more difficult to discern...

first, it's an fTP modifier, not a PDIF modifier.

It affects both fTP and PDIF. This was already part of said testing and is not what we're wondering about

I'm honestly very skeptical about this conclusion. According to all I've read the Seagorgets only raise the fTP modifier by 10%. On a WS like Gekko which naturally has a 150 > 200 > 250 progression, whenever you WS with Hagun at 100% TP, the gorget should only raise your damage by 5% (10% is 5% of 200%). Yet in the tests I did, it seemed to raise it by a flat 10%.

I realize some people may say, show me the evidence. But my main question at this point is, if this behavior I observed is true (assume this), does that disprove the fTP mod? Or am I misunderstanding. Is it a 10% bonus to the fTP itself, not +10% fTP?

Did you account for the PDIF varying when you were testing? If you didn't, that right there might make it seem like it's a bigger or smaller difference than it really is

[VZX]

So they provide an (fTP * 1.1) effect instead of (fTP + 0.1)? I don't think I can test meaningfully with my available jobs only having a Breeze Gorget.

I'm pretty sure it is fTP+25/256. It matches on guillotine and slugwinder test

[Yutuyu]

Test was done on too weak mobs with SATA in Gustaberg, pDIF bonus shouldn't have any effect there. I noticed a pretty much flat 10% increase (I'll get some actual data to show you guys) using Hagun and SA+Gekkoing things at 100%.

[VZX]

Overall, the numbers aren't quite exact matches with my test results, but they're pretty damn close. If gorgets had some effect on pdif, I believe the numbers with them should have been fairly significantly higher.

If I read it correctly, Naga said there was no pDIF bonus, even if there is, it won't be significant

[DrObvious]

Using Sidewinder as a testbed, it's extremely obvious that gorget adds 0.1 to fTP mod and not 10%.

[Yutuyu]

SA + hagun + No gorget + gekko + TP 100%
703 799 761 783 762 = 761.6 AVG

SA + hagun + gorget + gekko + TP 100%
832 760 843 843 843 = 824.2

Gorget DMG/No gorget DMG = 1.082

So about a 8.2% increase. I realize 5 for each is a pretty small sample size, but 8.2% is pretty skewed in favor of the 10% possibility. Interestingly if you remove the stray data points which are far away from the others... AVG Gorget damage = 840.25, AVG No Gorget damage = 776.25, and the ratio is still around 1.082, or 8.2%

[aurik]

Um, are you testing the fTP mod or looking for pDIF bonus?

[Yutuyu]

Should be obvious as discussed earlier in the thread? The test was done on level 1 mobs. pDIF is totally irrelevent there. I was trying to figure out what the fTP bonus was. With a 8.2% damage increase, the fTP bonus couldn't be +.1 fTP.