"Achievements" in Games; your opinions

[The Stig]

I wish to discuss/hear your views on the impact/effect of "Game Achievements" as seen on Xbox 360 and PS3 Online stuff (I'm not sure of the actual names). I made this thread after the achievements thread posted today by someone on FFXI, and it reminded me of this "thought" I had on achievements.

So I haven't cared much recently about this stuff (and I still don't really care) but however I am beginning to notice in random places and a few people I know that, apparently, your "gaming skill" is in direct correlation in how much achievements you have obtained overall in games.

But upon looking up a few achievements in "popular games", and all I had to think was they don't seem to be too big of a deal and it seems many free/downloadable games for those systems allows you to collect achievements.

i.e. some achievements I've seen randomly are as silly as "get X amount of X" or "kill 2 guys in one shot!".

While it seems it's possible to make one's e-peen look big at first sight, I truely doubt their gaming ability overall, because most of them to be objectives more than anything else and it doesn't actually directly help you improve at a game.

So ... having said this:

- Would you refuse to play a game if it does not have achievements? I know someone who refuses to play a game without achievements because "it's a waste of time"

- Is collecting achievements "fun" for you? I can see it being like a collectable, but I'm concerned with those who see it as their "gaming prowess" and go around claiming they're awesome at games (to me, being good is being GOOD against human players, not against the AI; so for example, reaction, skill, improvise, knowing your opponent's "mind", and so forth, and also the meta-game)

- Apart from a select few I don't think many of the games seem all that difficult nowadays in comparison to ... say, beating Contra on NES without the Konami Code. This is just a general observation, I am sure there's some truely difficult or difficult moments in a lot of the games - but do you feel that your past (unseen) achievements in the older games make you better at games overall (in terms of picking up the game and learning to play it fast and getting good) compared some of the retarded games today?

- I recall a VG Cats comic that took the piss out of the Xbox Achievement Points, I think, but I forgot the link or I cannot find it anymore (if someone can link it it'll be great!). But basically it ended with one of the "dicks" saying "what is it good for?" or something. Does that actually still apply today?

- Would you show off to people online/friends about your achievements?

Would just like to hear your thoughts, seeing as a lot of us are gamers here...

[Dmitry]

For some of the games that I really like, I like to try and get all the achievements or Trophies just as something extra to do, such as collecting all the shards in inFamous (can't find last one gdi >.<) or like even as a reward for doing something a lot of people won't such as beating the games on their hardest difficulty settings.

I find that the achievements do take away from the game when you play just for the achievements themselves. I know someone that is so pathetic that they play games just for them, such as one of the Maddens where you can get them all through running a season but not actually having to play, or doing the "Avatar trick" just for the points.

It just isn't fun for me when going just for achievements. I haven't done any of the easy 1000 games (I did play dash of destruction, but I just did it cuz I was bored, not for achievements), but I have gone through games I own trying to get achievements where I can because a real life friend decided he wanted a higher gamerscore than me, so he got Gamefly.

I suppose what it really comes down to for myself is that it just adds another level of competition where one shouldn't be.

[Nevex]

Not really interested in showing them to other people, in fact the whole trophy thing on PS3 is a big waste of time imo.

I used to enjoy 100% completing games a few years ago, but not that much anymore nowdays, the completionist side is gradually being replaced by the "I just want to have fun" one.

To make a few examples... I used to get every single skill point and max everything in PS2's R&C games, now I don't even bother to get all the weapon upgrades.

Used to complete DMC games in DMD mode, now I just make a single Hard mode playthrough then stop playing.

I used to max stats in every offline FF game but now I can't stand the idea of level grinding. Superbosses are always a nice challenge but FFXII's Yiazmat was just silly (50,000,000 HP =/= challenging).

Most of those achievements, as you said, are usually something like "kill X amount of Y in Z time" or "collect every single item, even the most useless one, in this game" so they lack originality and I've gradually lost interest in them.

tl;dr Either put fun and original achievements in games or don't even bother adding them.

[Karshe]

I don't mind achievements, and other than the insane collectible ones (see: Assassin's Creed 1) going for some achievements can be fun.

In some cases, achievements give "reason" to explore parts of the game you may not have previously seen. As an example, I have 1550/1550 gamerscore on Fallout 3 after buying GOTY edition, and had fun doing almost every single achievement (damn 100 steel ingots...) because most of them were just making sure you saw what the game had to offer.

I also think that some achievements can carry bragging rights. As a random example, for a game I just rented... Batman: Arkham Asylum. I rented the game, so I was on borrowed time, but I was not able to do all of the challenge room scenarios... both because I had limited time, and some of them were a complete pain in the ass. So if I were to see someone had that achievement... nicely done, sir.

All of this said, gamerscore does generally not = skill. But I don't think there's anything wrong with extending the playtime of a game. If you don't like them, don't go for them.

[Charismatic]

The idea behind achievements is nothing bad, gamerscores and any type of ranking system based on total achievements across multiple games is pretty damn stupid though.


This is especially true because the acheivements aren't held to any sort of standard. In some games getting 1000/1000 is super fast and super easy, in others (like FFXI) it's a daunting task.


There is no type of balance in the scoring, so really... the scores don't mean anything.

[Dmitry]

I agree with the Fallout 3 example from Karshe. I really enjoy Fallout 3, and I'm working on a Neutral playthrough and then plan to do an evil one, but they reward you for exploring and trying different things, which is what they should do.

Like previously cited, the easy ones (such as kill 2 people with 1 shot as an example) don't really add much to the game other than gamerscore or trophies. Some are tedious like collecting everything, but also give you a little extra reward for completing every part of the game and one that you can show others you have.

[Julian]

Achievements for me have the Pokemon "Gotta catch 'em all" mentality. It's just another way to fully complete a game. Don't care about total amounts or e-penis, I never play online either so meh at that.

A lot of times, when I beat a game, maybe I do some of the extra sidequests, but I usually leave quite a bit undone, and sometimes when an achievement forces me to do those extras, it's a nice thing, because it's getting me to do something that I otherwise would have just skipped, and I end up getting more out of the game.

edit: Although, just like how I never really bothered and usually gave up before catching all those damned Pokemon, I usually give up on achievements after a while. Stuff like those battle trophies in SO4.. Actually, I think the only two next-gen games with achievements that I've played are Star Ocean 4 and Tales of Vesperia >_> It's still fun trying to catch 'em all, though.

[Viq]

I pay zero attention to achievements/trophies. If games didn't have them, I wouldn't even notice.

[Tyrath]

I pay zero attention to achievements/trophies. If games didn't have them, I wouldn't even notice.

Pretty much the same here. I don't go out of my way to get achievements, if they happen cool whatever. Every now and then I might look at the achievements list and do one that doesnt take too much time or whatever. But I'm not a completionist in games anymore. I just try to have fun.

[Kaisha]

I like and hate them.

I like them for the fact it's something extra to do in a game (well, for the most part, since a lot of games take the lazy route and give you the majority of awards for just beating the game, rather than making you go out of your way to try new things), but I hate them for the fact that in games I get OCD about collecting them, it turns into a chore of looking up missable trophies/achievements, guides to get particular ones, and chronologically listing them all in the order I'll be getting them.

The idea of all that researching crap for me is to get as many trophies/achievements as possible in the least amount of playthroughs, which typically boils down to the first run being a huge chore to ensure all the nasty ones are done first (like One Gun from Dead Space), and then subsequent playthroughs being more enjoyable due to me being able to play the game as I see fit for the most part, although typically at a higher difficulty level thanks to a fair amount of games these days having one unlocked via completion of the first playthrough.

But yeah, I'm a trophy whore, and have opted out on not getting some games from the bargain bin due to them not having any, although that's typically restricted to the PS3 only as I'm pretty sure all 360 games from day one had achievements.


My only real pet peeve with achievements/trophies are the retarded online-based ones that essentially take three-four times the amount of hours to obtain than all the single-player ones combined, made further worse in games that aren't that popular online to begin with. In the case of the PS3, the Platinum really needs to be limited to unlocked via single-player trophies only.

[ArchDizzle]

Pretty much the same here. I don't go out of my way to get achievements, if they happen cool whatever. Every now and then I might look at the achievements list and do one that doesnt take too much time or whatever. But I'm not a completionist in games anymore. I just try to have fun.

^This, unless it's a game I really, really love, then I will try to 100% everything in it and in the process get all of the trophies/achievments.

[Tagus]

The ideal setup for achievements would be that the points accumulated are relatively proportional to the effort and/or difficulty of accomplishing each particular goal. This is definitely not the case for FFXI, and I would guess this disparity would cause most of the people who would respond to this here to not give a shit about achievements and add to the lolxbox mentality.

It was also pointed out to me via PM that my post in the 360 achievement thread that just got locked was wrong, and that my achievement points for FFXI should be about 250 given what I've accomplished as opposed to the 150 I reported. Considering that I achieved these points over 4500 hours of gameplay over the course of 30 months, I'd say that for me personally, it's pretty hard to care about achievements at this point.

[Minions]

I enjoy getting all the trophies, in many cases, making me play a game for far longer than I previously would, or even though the game multiple times. If I didn't care about them, I would not purchase games to begin with, as a $50~60 investment is a lot for just one play through of each game in which you have no set goals to achieve. In Fallout 3 trophies and such will extend your play time from 20~ hours to over 40 really, and that in itself makes trophies useful to me. Some trophies force you to explore areas that are not involved in the story line, and you most likely otherwise would not bother to explore.

[Raen Ryong]

I finish the game the first time without bothering about researching achievements and such. After that, I try to grab them if they're not stupidly annoyingly grindy or such; just adds an extra dimension to replayability. I agree number of trophies/scoring means little though since it's so subjective to the game.

For the record, I believe Wipeout HD has the hardest trophies out of all PS3 games. I could be wrong?!

[Kriz]

I enjoy the little beep getting a PS3 trophy entails. It's a fun little add-on, especially in socialable games, especially Rock Band 2.

That said, I've let the "no Trophy support" angle change my gameplans- I bought The Orange Box for PS3 for Portal (as a Mac owner with only a PS3, it's the only way I can get it- btw, it's a slightly glitchy port), but have felt no rushing desire to play HL2 or Episode 1/2 or TF2 because of no trophy support.

Now I won't grind and go crazy for the "Platinum" trophies which are usually "Get every other trophy" or "Do this impossible task on impossible mode". But I do enjoy getting a trophy now and then. I did grind on SE's Crystal Defenders to get 100%, but at least that was feasible, even if difficult.

I like comparing trophies to my more hardcore PS3 friends for games we all have, but I don't let the fact that they have more trophies due to a vastly larger library bother me. PS3 uses multiple tiers of trophies and a level-up system rather than just a total score as well.

[*Shinzon*]

Makes no difference to me on average. The Trophy system is more a less a gauge of how complete I was when I played through the game. I tend to stay away from games without replay value though so I'll almost always replay a game and make sure I try to get whatever it was I missed the first time through but it doesn't kill me if I miss it. To be frank if they removed the system completely I wouldn't even notice it being gone. Not sure many other people would agree with me there though.

[Ramor]

Pretty much the same here. I don't go out of my way to get achievements, if they happen cool whatever. Every now and then I might look at the achievements list and do one that doesnt take too much time or whatever. But I'm not a completionist in games anymore. I just try to have fun.

this.

about the only game i enjoy working for them in is TF2, they're easy to see what they are and none are really grind~like, unless you count the ones that basically require you to play a class for a while (which isn't hard if you enjoy the class)

for instance i finally got my 1000 assists on heavy trophy, which wasn't hard because i just really like playing heavy. but i'm nowhere near the get 1000 kills on sniper achievement because i don't play it much, but i really don't care about sniper anyway so i'm fine with it.

[Kyo]

I can careless about achievements or trophies, I tend to ignore them.

[Deftscythe]

I think achievements really add to a game's value. Games can be so short nowadays and achievements can add a few extra hours of fun if they're challenging.

My xbox is out for repair at the moment, so I spent a lot of time last week at my friend's place playing Left 4 Dead 2. Playing split-screen online is not something we really wanted to do with that game, so being relegated to offline coop we would've been done with it only a few hours if not for the fun, inventive achievements like rescuing Gnome Chompski.

That said, I don't really go out of my way to get 1000/1000 on games or show off my score. I just go after the achievements that seem fun and think of them like sidequests.

[Eversor]

I love me some achievements. Sure in the grand scheme of things they mean nothing. But they are a fun way to compete with friends, show people what you have accomplished, and give yourself markers of your progress. While some games are a little reduntant and/or easy with their achievements (and I'm guilty of playing a few games like that for points), there are some gems you will cherish. Someone brought up Assassin's Creed 1, and I'm the only one on my friend list who actually got 1000/1000 on the game. I loved it and enjoyed playing it through.

Not everyone likes them but I dont play games for everyone, just for my own personal satisfaction. Now excuse me while I set up my new 360 to replace my old one (lolM$ with my 3rd 360) and play my Lego Rock Band I got for free for buying two pairs of pants at Old Navy at 3 in the morning.