UN report on Israeli attack on Gaza flotilla

[Kuya]

The report came out late last month, and documents forensic evidence from the Israeli attack on the ships. Most of the report backs the claims made by those on the ship. I will post one part from the report itself, then i will quote some parts from a Huffington Post article mentioning a few facts from the report (not all of the facts mentioned by the article are specifically cited) and then i will quote from a Hareetz article pertaining to US voting involving this matter. I will post links at the end.


A lot of debate happend when the attack was first reported on this forum. One point of contention was whether the Israelis fired first at the passangers or the passangers attacked the Israeli commandoes first. The video released by the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) showed passangers from the Marmara pushing Israeli comandoes off the boat, the video did not show what happend before. It was contented on this forum that the passangers were probably reacting to violence from the commandoes. This part of the report seems to give priority to this fact (page 25-26):

Landing of soldiers from helicopters onto the Mavi Marmara
114. Just minutes after soldiers from the zodiac boats had made initial unsuccessful
attempts to board, the first helicopter approached the ship at approximately 0430 hours, hovering above the top deck. At this point between 10 and 20 passengers were located in the central area of the top deck, although this number increased as other passengers learned of events on the top deck. The Israeli forces used smoke and stun grenades in an attempt to clear an area for the landing of soldiers. The first rope that was let down from the helicopter was taken by passengers and tied it to a part of the top deck and thereby rendered ineffective for the purpose of soldiers’ descent. A second rope was then let down from the helicopter and the first group of soldiers descended. The Mission does not find it plausible that soldiers were holding their weapons and firing as they descended on the rope. However, it has concluded that live ammunition was used from the helicopter onto the top deck prior to the descent of the soldiers.

I will quote the parts i find interesting in the HP article. Of note is the fact that the US government has barely been shown to care at all that a US citizen was unjustifiably killed. This is not new, since it has happened before (see Rachel Corrie), but i will comment that since a State is supposed to be very zealous in the defense of the safety and rights both at home and abroad of its citizens, it is particularly scary for the US State to be putting alliances with foreign nations above concern for its own citizens. That is not the way a responsible State should behave. Particularly because when a citizen from one State is harmed or oppressed by a different State, it is expected that the State of which the citizen belongs will defend that citizen and/or seek justice for him/her.

Seeing a State stand up for a foreign State rather than its citizens is a scary sight. Now for the quotes:

The report of the fact-finding mission of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) on the Israeli attack on the Gaza flotilla released last week shows conclusively, for the first time, that US citizen Furkan Dogan and five Turkish citizens were murdered execution-style by Israeli commandos.

The report reveals that Dogan, the 19-year-old US citizen of Turkish descent, was filming with a small video camera on the top deck of the Mavi Marmara when he was shot twice in the head, once in the back and in the left leg and foot and that he was shot in the face at point blank range while lying on the ground.

The report says Dogan had apparently been "lying on the deck in a conscious or semi-conscious, state for some time" before being shot in his face.

Based on both "forensic and firearm evidence," the fact-finding panel concluded that Dogan's killing and that of five Turkish citizens by the Israeli troops on the Mavi Marmari May 31 "can be characterized as extra-legal, arbitrary and summary executions." (See Report [.pdf] Page 38, Section 170)

Another passenger whom forensic evidence shows was killed execution-style, according to the OHCHR report, is Ibrahim Bilgen, a 60-year-old Turkish citizen. Bilgen is believed by forensics experts to have been shot initially from the helicopter above the Mavi Marmara and then shot in the side of the head while lying seriously wounded.

The fact-finding mission was given forensic evidence that, after the initial shot in chest from above, Bilgen was shot in the head with a "soft baton round at such close proximity that an entire bean bag and its wadding penetrated the skull and lodged in the chest from above," the mission concluded.

The report notes that the Israeli military never communicated a request by radio to inspect the cargo on board any of the ships, apparently contradicting the official justification given by the Israeli government for the military attack on the Mavi Marmara and other ships of preventing any military contraband from reaching Gaza.

According to the OHCHR report, Israeli Chief of General Staff Gabi Ashkenazi testified to the Turkel Committee August 11 that the initial rules of engagement for the operation prohibited live fire except in life-threatening situations, but that that they were later modified to target protesters "deemed to be violent" in response to the resistance by passengers.

That decision apparently followed the passengers' successful repulsion of an Israeli effort to board the ship from Zodiac boats.

The report confirms that, from the beginning of the operation, passengers were fired on by helicopters flying above the Mavi Marmara to drop commandos on the deck.

Contrary to Israeli claims that one or more Israeli troops were wounded by firearms, the report says no medical evidence of a gunshot wound to an Israeli soldier was found.

The OHCHR report confirms accounts from passengers on the Mavi Marmara that defenders subdued roughly ten Israeli commandos, took their weapons from them and threw them in the sea, except for one weapon hidden as evidence. The Israeli soldiers were briefly sequestered below and some were treated for wounds before being released by the defenders.

These quotes are from Haartetz. The very cynical comment by US officials is quite priceless.

The United Nations Human Rights Council Wednesday endorsed a fiercely critical report on Israel's raid on a Gaza aid flotilla in May but stopped short of pressing for an international criminal inquiry.

The United States, the main promoter of the latest round of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, voted against the two texts from the 57-nation OIC, saying nothing should be done that would spoil the prospects for peace.

The raid resolution, presented by Pakistan for the OIC and effectively calling on Israel to try troops guilty of violence, was passed in the 47-nation council with 30 votes in favour, one -- the United States -- against, and 15 abstentions.

The seven European Union members on the body abstained, joining the United States in saying that the text failed to recognize that another flotilla inquiry set up by U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon took primacy.

"Nothing should be done that would spoil the prospects for peace". Amazing statement isn't it? Especially when that something is holding murderers accountable. Holding murderers accountable spoils peace. Well, what kind of peace is that?

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies...C.15.21_en.pdf

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_743873.html

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...eport-1.316406

[Rhinox]

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfa...nchez.rick.jpg


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[Kuya]

Oh Sanchez! Those nerds won't ever stop laughing at you!

[Callisto]

"Nothing should be done that would spoil the prospects for peace". Amazing statement isn't it? Especially when that something is holding murderers accountable. Holding murderers accountable spoils peace. Well, what kind of peace is that?

To an extent their position makes sense given how Israel seems pretty much perpetually on the verge of bailing from the talks at every hint of anything they don't agree with, I recall hearing something on the radio about them threatening to bail on this round of talks because some Palestinians built a playground in a no-no zone or something and the U.S. needed to threaten them back to get them to back off.

[Callisto]

To clarify I personally feel that the whole situation there is perma-fucked and we'll never see peace and don't really see the point of committing any further resources towards trying to force it upon them, just saying that I can understand if the U.S. has reached the point that they'll ignore a plethora of shit from either side to get some sort of bullshit 'peace' put on paper that probably won't mean anything in practice.

[Kuya]

To an extent their position makes sense given how Israel seems pretty much perpetually on the verge of bailing from the talks at every hint of anything they don't agree with, I recall hearing something on the radio about them threatening to bail on this round of talks because some Palestinians built a playground in a no-no zone or something and the U.S. needed to threaten them back to get them to back off.

No doubt Israel is in an excellent position in relation to the Palestinians to demand whatever it wants. Granted, the US, in theory, should have the power to get the Israelis to agree to a settlement no matter the circumstances, but there's the issue of whether that's what the US wants.

Furthermore, if peace means having a Nation-State that looks like swisscheese and that is perpetually under the thumb of Israel, perhaps that might not be such a good peace at all.

[Callisto]

Yeah, I honestly don't expect Israel to actually own up to whatever 'concessions' they'd be forced to make either way, but I would understand if the U.S. tried to force them to play nice on paper then either leave it up to the rest of the UN to enforce said peace agreements, or just wash their hands of the situation entirely once it seems like they've done their part.

[Correction]

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Those dirty jews got him fired from CNN today, too. Those dirty, dirty jews.

[Kuya]

To clarify I personally feel that the whole situation there is perma-fucked and we'll never see peace and don't really see the point of committing any further resources towards trying to force it upon them, just saying that I can understand if the U.S. has reached the point that they'll ignore a plethora of shit from either side to get some sort of bullshit 'peace' put on paper that probably won't mean anything in practice.

Oh i missed this.

Your post makes it sound like the US isn't part of the reason the situation is so bad.

[notorious bum]

Israel is purely a strategic military base for the U.S., however Israel's administration are a bunch of idiots and can't even carryout simple cover-ups or smart PR campaigns against the country they are colonizing, unlike the U.S.. Even Biden admitted they are making us look bad, so much for Jew brotherhood.

In gangs, they don't tollerate dumb bitches in the family and simply take over their shit and disown them/get rid of them in a timely fashion. Dems are a bunch of pussies and simply try to play dumb instead of puttin their boy wutayahoo in his place.

[kuronosan]

This entire situation is just shit, as our government will never have the balls to tell Israel to fuck off when half their citizens own our country.

[Callisto]

Oh i missed this.

Your post makes it sound like the US isn't part of the reason the situation is so bad.

Not trying to. I'll be perfectly honest that I only have a vague understanding of the situation, from what I've gathered it seemed that the US supports Israel for their own reasons for whatever benefits they get out of it, Israel keeps doing absurd shit that makes the US look shitty by association, US is trying to publicly say that Israel shouldn't be doing shit like that to save face but won't really pull out their support since they still have their reasons for backing them.

By forcing Israel to sign off on a 'peace' the US gets to look like the good guy to the UN, if Israel fucks up the agreement the UN can punish them while the US can basically say sorry guys, it's not us it's the UN, and not jeopardize whatever they're getting out of the situation. Let me know if this sounds way off-base, you know that I don't particularly follow news or care about politics, I'm just tired of seeing shit like this as headline news when it hasn't changed in forever and won't change for the next forever.

[Salodin]

Why does the US care so much about Israel again? What do they give us that we can't get elsewhere?

[Callisto]

Money.

[Kuya]

Not trying to. I'll be perfectly honest that I only have a vague understanding of the situation, from what I've gathered it seemed that the US supports Israel for their own reasons for whatever benefits they get out of it, Israel keeps doing absurd shit that makes the US look shitty by association, US is trying to publicly say that Israel shouldn't be doing shit like that to save face but won't really pull out their support since they still have their reasons for backing them.

By forcing Israel to sign off on a 'peace' the US gets to look like the good guy to the UN, if Israel fucks up the agreement the UN can punish them while the US can basically say sorry guys, it's not us it's the UN, and not jeopardize whatever they're getting out of the situation. Let me know if this sounds way off-base, you know that I don't particularly follow news or care about politics, I'm just tired of seeing shit like this as headline news when it hasn't changed in forever and won't change for the next forever.

You have the gist of it, but what i was talking about a more historical perspective. If the US hadn't continued to interfere, either the Israelis, some Arab States, the Palestinians would have been decimated at this point, or some form of peace would have come out of this. The US interferes by providing absurd amounts of military assitance to Israel. The US interferes by blocking international action against Israel. The US interferes by pretending to be a neutral mediator when it really isn't, so more likely than not the situation will always end up on Israel's favour, with little regard to some vague notion of justice or international law.

US involvement there prolongs the status quo just as much as Israel prolongs it. US biased involvement i mean. I don't think i am exaggerating when i say that this conflict would have ended a decade or two ago if the US hadn't kept making the status quo atenable.

[Callisto]

You have the gist of it, but what i was talking about a more historical perspective. If the US hadn't continued to interfere, either the Israelis, some Arab States, the Palestinians would have been decimated at this point, or some form of peace would have come out of this. The US interferes by providing absurd amounts of military assitance to Israel. The US interferes by blocking international action against Israel. The US interferes by pretending to be a neutral mediator when it really isn't, so more likely than not the situation will always end up on Israel's favour, with little regard to some vague notion of justice or international law.

US involvement there prolongs the status quo just as much as Israel prolongs it. US biased involvement i mean. I don't think i am exaggerating when i say that this conflict would have ended a decade or two ago if the US hadn't kept making the status quo atenable.

I agree, though I do think it's kinda obvious if not historically but specifically at this point, if they jump off it's going to be a pretty one-sided fight, the Palestinians will get obliterated, and the US will likely be blamed for 'not doing anything' to stop it.

As much as the world's opinion of the US has diminished since the 90's, I'm willing to bet that a fair amount of the other countries still think we're supposed to be the superpower sheriff, regardless of whether the US still has the resources or will to. I personally am all for just getting the fuck out and letting the situation shake itself out naturally, but it'd still make them look pretty awful, establishing a peace is pretty much the only way they can save face at this point.

[Kuya]

Why does the US care so much about Israel again? What do they give us that we can't get elsewhere?

There are lots of reasons because there are lots of people involved in US foreign policy.

1- Ideological: Some people genuinely feel that Israel is essentially the same as the US. A US proyect in the Middle East even. So involvement in these conflicts is no different than the US protecting America itself.

2- Money: Israel buys a lot of weapons from the US, thus they are a favoured customer. They are a very important nation in keeping the military industry going.

3- Vestigial: Israel, much like half of the world, used to be the US's card in the fight against the Soviet Union. The US went around for decades collecting allys and attempting to keep nations away from Soviet Influence. Some have criticized that the US behaves as if it were still the Cold War by continuing to prop up its "satelite States" as if some incredible and formidable enemy State existed. The reasons may have started out like this, but they have long taken on a life of their own.

4- US interests in the Middle East: Israel is an ally, for better or for worse, and what's more, an ally that opposes Iran. Thus it's a very valuable tool in keeping some US influence in that region.

[Hyan]

I'm willing to bet that a fair amount of the other countries still think we're supposed to be the superpower sheriff

I don't know about that. How many countries think there should even be a world police? Not that many, I'd guess. Except the US of course. However I can't speak for other countries.

We still think of you guys as the world police, although that's not a positive thing.

[Callisto]

I don't know about that. How many countries think there should even be a world police? Not that many, I'd guess. Except the US of course. However I can't speak for other countries.

We still think of you guys as the world police, although that's not a positive thing.

That's what I mean, I think we kinda overstepped our reach in the 90s when it seemed like our prosperity was limitless, and for good or bad we're expected to live up to that both by the world and our own citizens, and it's just not going to happen with how fucked up our own situation is these days.

I'd be happier if we'd try to mind our own business more and fix shit in-house before dealing with sticking our noses in the world's disputes.

[Hyan]

I'd be happier if we'd try to mind our own business more and fix shit in-house before dealing with sticking our noses in the world's disputes.

Me too. If you go down we're all fucked anyway.

Sorry for OT Kuya :D