LS ZNM Lotting System

[Nitecon]

I'm looking to introduce ZNM into my LS event schedule, however I am at a complete loss as to what type of point/lotting system to introduce for the important drops i.e. Tier 4 stuff.

I was hoping to get some inspiration from BG readers and what kind of system their LS use for ZNM.

Hmm maybe this belongs in standard discussion, please move if appropriate

[donnie]

we tried to assign cost using points and tiers , but honestly it doesnt work. Since its very time consuming to get zeni and getting to the tiers you need.

what we do now is basically saying we want this path, then whoever wants to use thier zeni on that path uses it. and basically your pop your loot. even on T4. the people doing that path , they actually getting zeni together , and can decide to share loot on T4 between them

on the other hand, we do ask members to give the LS PW items , and once 1 is complete , the rest can go to nyzle relics upgraders.

[stewie]

Tier 1-3 we pick an item we want and lot, if don't want any it goes free lot. Tier 3 ZNM triggers go to leaders, and T4 drops are decided by leaders.

[Zilong]

I do ZNM with group of friends somewhat constantly.

Our system is like tier 1-3 is orbholder's choice on the manner of distribution whatever drops, T4 we just pull 15% of the total loot each run into helper's pool and distribute it to whoever didn't pop that run.

Just make sure to reward the trigger holder, otherwise they'd have no incentive to build a set.

[Renzy]

The person that pops it gets to choose 1 item in the drop pool and obviously take the trigger as well, then the rest goes free lot to the people helping if they meet the requirements.
For all Tiers btw

[Arthars]

T1-3 YOYD
T4 pick 1 material + trigger + 1 equipment. other EQ free for others

ps: everyone will fight since all should have pop item. those w/o pop items that wanna help onry AND still complain about the above should gtfo

[Skinwalker]

we tried to assign cost using points and tiers , but honestly it doesnt work. Since its very time consuming to get zeni and getting to the tiers you need.

what we do now is basically saying we want this path, then whoever wants to use thier zeni on that path uses it. and basically your pop your loot. even on T4. the people doing that path , they actually getting zeni together , and can decide to share loot on T4 between them

on the other hand, we do ask members to give the LS PW items , and once 1 is complete , the rest can go to nyzle relics upgraders.

We´re doing exactly the same, yoyd. Imo it´s the only fair system since ppl spend so much time to get their pop triggers together. Member with no pop trigger will get points (DKP)

[Furionstormrage]

We don't use a points system for anything, so for ZNM we do:

Tier 1-3 YOYD

Triggers for Tier 4 are held by sackholders, mainly to get as many Tier 4 pops as possible without having random triggers sitting around.

Tier 4 drops are decided by the people contributing the triggers (If they want R/E gear they take it, if not leaders use a wishlist and have people on the list lot it.). They can pick one money item and the rest is sold+split amongst participants.

If anything drops, from any Tier, that the Trigger holder does not want (or have someone picked for it), we revert to a drop list and everyone present that wants that item can lot it.

[Byrthnoth]

We do Your Pop Your Drop all the way up to tier 4. I imagine if people wanted the PW trigger items, they'd be Your Pop Your Drop as well. Killing the ZNM is the smallest part of the ZNMing process.

[blmallesandra]

Here is a link to our linkshell's ZNM lotting rules:

http://www.vov-ls.com/rules

VICE or VIRTUE ZNM Linkshell - Unicorn Server



I hope that helps as a good starting point

[Starr]

The Rare & High Value items will be lotted and sold by the linkshell leaders. Once the item sells, the gil will be equally distributed to the linkshell members who participated in that specific fight in which the item(s) appeared in the treasure pool. In the future, the Rare & High Value items may become available as a normal Tier 4 & 5 lotting item for long-term members who have worked hard to earn it.

These items include:
Alkalurops
Hachiryu Sune-Ate
Shusui
Foolkiller
Pachipachio
Hachiryu Haidate
Antares
Enforcer
Hachiryu Kote
Hydra Scale
Cerberus Hide
Cerberus Claw
Pandemonium Warden Loot

wtf

[ringthree]

wtf

Seriously. That sounds like that LS that was selling it's AV drops to it's members. LOL

[Grey Jorildyn]

ZNM is just a glorified pop NM event with a progression. The way my linkshell did it was just by integrating it into our much larger point system. Any and all of my tips are always going to come from the perspective of a solid point system that has good, fair rules to support it. In order to do that you need synergy between the point rewards and the rules that limit what goes where. A static group of members also assists greatly in terms of gear distribution, but if it's a really small group (6-10) then going through all the work of making a point system in the first place is kind of moot.

We gauge the worth of each mob based on a number of factors that I posted awhile back (difficulty, desire for items, people needed, etc.), and just let people decide what they want to throw down for the item point-wise. Karasu's point system works on in 0.25 increments. Generally, first tiers are worth 0.25, as are most tier IIs. Some tier IIs are worth 0.50, as are most tier IIIs. Tier IVs are generally worth 1.0 points, but Tyger is worth 0.75 as far as I can recall (can't see DKP from my job site atm). Keep in mind that our values are scaled down to this increment because we do ALL end game events (dynamis, limbus, stronghold invasion, ground, sea, sky, ouryu, pop NM, ZNM, etc.....), so if you're looking to create a system specifically for ZNM and ZNM only then you're gonna wanna up-scale your point values to whole numbers perhaps. This will also help in calculating an idea I will present later.

Thereafter we just allow people to use our silent bidding system to determine who gets what.

The one catch though is this:
Any time someone pops an ZNM mob they have the opportunity to use a "first dibs" privilege on its treasure pool once it appears. Basically they get to declare one item and then use points as a function of tier to secure the item for themselves as per all the hard work they put in farming the zeni and such. Within our point system the formula for winning an item using "first dibs" is just [Tier * 4 points], but it will be different for anyone using a point system due to differences in scaling.

Since this came up in another post, the person that pops the ZNM gets to keep the PW pop item also. We have always been a person-centered linkshell rather than a funding linkshell, so this fit in with our philosophy.

-----
You may want to use a set system like that but also include extra points cost. Our first dibs are really only used on mobs Tier 3+, making the first two sets of mobs worthless. At first we didn't even give points for these mobs, but later on we did just to get things rolling (although it's the lowest possible amount of points you can earn in the whole system). For the sellable stuff it's gonna depend on if you want those items to be allowed sold by members or unsellable. Never should a linkshell take what rightfully belongs to members by selling it on the market to help the linkshell achieve some other goal. That is just my opinion on it, but I think it makes sense that others should not benefit off of the efforts of a single person.

If you're looking to complicate things a bit, then going from my formula above, you can tack on a addend to it like this:

Points to win = [Tier * 4 points] + [(ItemValue / 1000000)gil * 2 points]

The assumptions are that this market values "1,000,000g" as a sort of baseline for things. This also assumes that the market value for these items is going to stay in the millions. Generally speaking, hard-coding a gil value into any rule is bad practice due to fluctuating values (we have another remedy for this ) So in practice, if an Alkalurops is worth 10mil on your server, and a Hachiryu Haidate is worth 15mil, then you get these kind of figures:

Alkalurops (tier 4, 10mil) = 16 points + 20 points = 36 points
Haidate (tier 4, 15mil) = 16 points + 30 points = 46 points.

I like to be creative with my point system. The first step to being able to do that is to create one that works well. Honestly I think Karasu's point system is one of the best ever designed, but events like ZNM didn't quite fit the mold as ideally as we would have liked, so it took some creative toying to get it working the way we wanted to and something like "first dibs" really recognizes the work the zeni farmer puts in, and we like to preserve those sorts of efforts.

[Kerberoz]

T1-3 your pop your drop.
T4 pick best item and the rest is banked or lotted.

Some of these systems seem really draconian. Why even bother snapping thousands of zeni and getting through t3 just to have to waste points on keeping what's yours?

[Kaelia]

There's this bitch Kaelia in your LS, might want to consider just passing everything her way.

[Suiram]

I don't know if the OP still cares for input, but I figured I might as well share our setup, too. As a preliminary remark, our LS generally uses a point system appended with a tiered job priority.

For Tiers 1 through 3, a person can buy a pop item in exchange for sole lotting rights on a specific drop. Anything unclaimed is free-lotted, and a person can elect to specify the trigger for a T2 or T3 as their desired item if they're interested in an item from one of those tiers. Everyone present is awarded 1 pt per hour (this is standard for "mindless work" in our LS, 1 pt per hour of sky triggers, T1 sea farming, back when we had LS dynamis, certain HNM camps, etc.), and every (non-trigger) item lotted, regardless if claimed by someone or freelotted, costs 5 points (this is to partially offset the point award given for farming them).

T4 (and hopefully, eventually, PW) uses our regular system. Kills are awarded 3 points (this is comparable to the awards for NMs of similar difficulty), and the items are priced in accordance with their rarity, desirability, and utility, and are likewise assigned a job priority.

There is an additional award for buying pop items under two circumstances. The first is for buying a T4 pop, for the above reason that there is no special lotting priority associated with it. The second is for buying a pop when nobody in the LS is interested in buying it under the above pops-for-priority scheme. The awards for T1~4 pops are 1, 1, 2, and 3, respectively. This was arrived at by calculating the average amount of Zeni a reasonably resourceful person could obtain in one hour of snapping pictures, and then applying the aforementioned "1 point per hour of mindless work" criterion to the typical Zeni costs for those tiers, rounding up or down where appropriate to avoid the mess of fractional point awards.

Anyway, I hope this was somewhat helpful, since although it is similar in some ways to some of the other posters' systems, it isn't identical to any of them that I saw.

[jimbobsonofgod]

I go with zil and I gotta say it works out pretty nice.

You get rewarded with by how much time you put in. If you are not popping 15% of total take for you time in killing.
Or if you pop, 85% of your pop goes to you.(plus any rare/ex you might be interested in).

Gives people incentives to pop.
Gives people incentives to help.

I've heard of people getting Hachiryu Haidate given to them by their ls without taking 1 picture. That makes me a sad panda.

But now we all just slave for alma cause that's all sylph is good for.

[Quetz_Jamal]

We've used a point system from the outset with no qualms whatsoever. Now that ZNM is getting tiresome, the points are available to be used elsewhere.

The main reason against YPYD is the ease that some jobs can solo pics while others need to rely on help combined with the fact that you might just have shitty luck on your drops. We're 4/30 on achamoths for example...and odds are if we did YPYD i'd still be organicless.

I give out bonus points for obtaining zeni, but its not a requirement. Participation is the key for us.

[Zumi]

Whenever I did ZNM did like your pop your drops but you can give to other people if you want.

[Kaylia]

Seriously. That sounds like that LS that was selling it's AV drops to it's members. LOL

There is nothing wrong selling item to linkshell member, as long the rule aren't biased toward someone.

Let's face it, "linkshell item" concept doesn't work, and I have yet to see one back after 5 years. If you simply give them away, it's 95% of the linkshell who is left unrewarded and will never benefit from those items...not to mention, it's usually the same person who manage to get everything first.

Selling item to your linkshell (half of the market price for us) is just another point system, except this one is based to money. Abuse would be possible technically if someone make ton of money on his own, but we never had that problem before, and it's easy to deal with if he start buying everything.


[edit]
and for ZNM, your orb your loot is the way to go. Farming Zeni is the shitty part, and you need to do this to encourage people farming. For t4, people pick 1 loot+trigger