Baseball pitching mechanics

[Saga]

Don't know if we have many baseball players here (fans I know we have plenty of), but just wanted to get some thoughts on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLC7M...eature=related

Apparently it's some technique called the Marshall Mechanic, after Mike Marshall, a relief pitcher who won the Cy in '74. He was also the first reliever to win the award. But frankly, guys like Eric Gagne and other one-timers have won the award, and guys like Gagne are still fucking horrible.

Compare that above video to this guy's mechanics, which look spot on (and no fat jokes ffs, they aren't clever and everyone's already said their share on the youtube video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OWd8...eature=related

Basically, the people that train under Marshall tout greater movement on their breaking pitches, coupled with less wear and tear on the arm and hence a longer career. Frankly, I think it's fucking stupid since there's such a low chance of that career being successful solely because, using the Marshall mechanics, the fastball movement is flat, and there's really no reason to throw a changeup with that pitching motion. The arm slot and release point are both just so awkward, and god knows what on earth is going on with that glove during the delivery.

Despite looking like their shoulder's ready to tear out of their socket, Marshall's pitchers reportedly can go out, throw 90 to 100 pitches, rest up, go out the next day, and continue to throw at the same speed (or very close to it).

So less wear and tear, greater movement on breaking pitches..doesn't baseball already have those qualities in finesse pitchers? Guys like Beuhrle, Moyer, Wake, Zito, Byrd, etc. There's a whole slew of new, seemingly ridiculous terms for Marshall's adjusted pitches:

Maxline Fastball
Torque Fastball
Maxline Pronation Curve
Maxline True Screwball

It just sounds so gimmicky. I've got a huge problem with it. Granted, I know some finesse pitchers do weird shit like a thirty-second windup before they actually pitch the ball in order to make up for other shortcomings either in their delivery, movement or velocity, but this maxline fastball shit just seems like some borked attempt at deception, especially when deception already exists (quite successfully) in many of today's pitchers.

Maybe I'm narrow-minded, but I don't know. I know before the 1960's, everyone basically thought that throwing a sinker was a god-given ability, before any of the mechanics behind it were figured out, and that even now the term "finesse pitcher" isn't really looked on with any great deal of merit or respect, but those views have evolved since then. A while ago people just thought it meant that a pitcher couldn't get guys out with the stuff he already had. But now, scouts and coaches are kind of catching on and we're seeing more prevalence with finesse pitchers over power pitches, especially in the offensively-challenged NL. I just don't think this Marshal crap is going to catch on the same way the original finesse pitching did.

Hope someone is as interested in this kind of stuff as me.

[chazzyphizzle]

Just do steroids.

[ZarakiKujata]

Just do steroids.

so the guy gets even fatter?

[Caiyuo]

How timely for Comedy Central to play Major League today out of left field.

[Eliseos]

Without going too in depth, it would be so much easier to steal on a pitcher like that. Once his foot goes forward (which it looks like it has to in that setup to pitch), the runner can take off. Especially noticeable on a leftie, since he faces 1st in the normal setup, and it's much easier to keep runners honest for them.

[Orph]

I dont understand how that can help your arm, he is using almost no lower body strength. Looks to me that it would actually hurt your arm more. I would imagine a pitcher that opens up that much would have horrible control problems

[Weeks]

Marshall is a crackpot who has been making baseless claims for a decade that MLB refuses to give his students a chance because it would prove to everyone how wrong traditional pitching instructors are. The fact of the matter is nobody has shown the ability to throw a plus pitch in the way he's instructing. Every Mike Marshall success story involves a pitcher with classical mechanics, or Jeff Sparks, who got a spring training invite but was quickly released when he barely broke 80 MPH.

Maybe he's the world's foremost expert in training pitchers to throw 85 MPH straight fastballs for decades without pain, but above the high school ranks that just doesn't get it done.

[Beckwin]

that marshall delivery seems to be asking to get shotgunned too. great job on keeping your glove behind ya in the follow-through, lol. I can't imagine you'd be able to get much control releasing from that high while simultaneously falling off the mound.

in the second vid, the only thing that looked a tad off was the guy's elbow might've been a little low, but he had pretty good legwork going on.

[Fistandantilus]

I've been out of Baseball for a while but used to play religiously when I was younger, Pitcher mostly. I went to a lot of camps and got help from a lot of college coaches to learn the mechanics properly. I only watched a minute of the top video before turning it off, that mechanic is fucking awful.

There's no leg power at all, and the way he pulls out instead of driving toward the plate would put massive strain on your shoulder unless you are throwing at a very low speed. Not to mention accuracy would be lowered from unneeded movement and not being lined up with your target. I don't really see how that mechanic could be good at all. I'm not just saying it doesn't follow the mechanics I've always been taught but also doesn't make logical sense.

Second video looked a lot better, I'd make like two tiny adjustments if it were me but it's solid overall.

[Electro]

I can tell you that the Marshall Mechanics are complete trash. I played baseball in college before throwing my arm out (been playing since I was 5 and as a pitcher since I was 8 ). The key is distribute your weight evenly and try and keep your arm loose also you need to land proper on your follow through. This will give you more power and a more accurate throw.Work out your legs rather than your arms. Doctors told me it wouldn't of happened (throwing out my arm) if I wouldn't have worked out so much on my arms and upper body. When you tighten your muscles and you attempt to throw hard you are at higher risk of pulling/tearing a muscle. Ballet classes can and will help you if you are truly serious about being a pitcher.

[jmc]

From pitching in highschool, and some college..... gonna have to agree with the majority here and say this is complete trash.

Only thing I can see being positive from the movement, would be like OP said and having a better break on breaking balls. However, you gain a better break while losing velocity on a fastball and just speed in general.

Doesn't seem worth it to me

[Stiker]

Being a former pitcher as well, I have to say those mechanics are just God-awful.

He does eliminate a lot of the "usual" motion of a leg kick, which really isn't a problem, but then he opens up and doesn't follow through with the rest of his body. That motion looks like all arm--I have a very hard time believing that helps his arm in the least, it looks like a recipe to throw it out quicker.

Basically, that motion has ZERO leverage, which is doubly retarded because the guy looks really tall in the video, he is killing velocity and movement IMO.

Add on to that, the arm angle is awful. As you said, it is going to make a fastball very flat, meaning it's a freakin' meatball.

Second video is much better, but not perfect. Personally, I think he is going forward to quickly and not staying back on his leg kick (aka "balance point"). However, he still gets his body into the pitch which puts a lot less stress on his arm. I also like the 3/4 slot because that allows for much more movement on pitches.

[Talus]

I didn't play in college, just pitched on high school team, went to camps, played year-round, etc.

First vid: wow, he is wide open with that plant foot, and the arm angle is so high that he's falling off the mound in the middle of his delivery. That just isn't efficient, it's wasted motion, and he's losing power from his hips & legs without being able to push off and rotate through his hips on his delivery, so he'll have a weak follow through. I'd imagine placement would be an issue as well, kinda doubt he'd have good command over his location.

Second vid: looks pretty decent, he looks like he could get a little bit better push/use his legs more.

Pitchers need strong legs, if you want to pitch, you should like running.