Ask the Devs! (12/03/2010)

[Xavier]

Fallacy alert.

You've acknowledged that an inconvenience exists, while simultaneously dismissing it with an affirmation that only "morons" are affected by it. However, the ability of a player to compensate for poor design does not negate the existence of poor design.

The criticism in this thread has been directed at the perplexity of the design decision itself (which is indicative of the issues plaguing the game at large), whereas you've sought to trivialize it by insulting the intelligence of anyone affected by it. If you're unable to see how that might constitute "white knighting," that's probably because it's all you do.

And I wouldn't beat a dead horse if it weren't for how annoying the apologists are on these forums, who approach each thread with the mentality that all criticism of the game must be trivialized and all criticism directed at the apologist's argument is ignorant.

[miokomioko]

You've acknowledged that an inconvenience exists, while simultaneously dismissing it

Questioning the severity/importance/impact of something does not contradict acknowledging its existence... just so you know. If you're going to try and call out my fallacies, you might not want to simultaneously make irrelevant assumptions of my intent by saying I "sought to trivialize the perplexity of the design decision itself." I was trivializing the overall impact of this one design flaw, not its perplexity/stupidity/pointlessness/oversights/etc.

Even so, I'd say it's quite natural for someone to trivialize the cumulative effect of something that can be avoided with what they consider "common sense." Too bad the term is largely subjective or simply non-existent. Thus, people get insulted because of the implications that they weren't observant enough to see something someone else easily saw. If I say something was obvious, it just burns up the insecure people who didn't see it. That's what this is all about. It no longer has anything to do with the blind decision to immediately cancel leves when a character crosses an invisible zone line. Which is something we can all agree was a bad move.

It's just easier to label something I say as "white knighting" or call me an "apologist" than it is to actually read something I've written objectively, especially if it's got some kind of jab at someone contained within. Plus, it's fun to argue. I never would have guessed that saying "I agree it shouldn't exist, but who has this problem anyways?" would have caught so much grief because of people's insecurities.

[Shaskoru]

Even so, I'd say it's quite natural for someone to trivialize the cumulative effect of something that can be avoided with what they consider "common sense." Too bad the term is largely subjective or simply non-existent. Thus, people get insulted because of the implications that they weren't observant enough to see something someone else easily saw. If I say something was obvious, it just burns up the insecure people who didn't see it. That's what this is all about. It no longer has anything to do with the blind decision to immediately cancel leves when a character crosses an invisible zone line. Which is something we can all agree was a bad move.

There's no fucking way you're this dense.

It's just easier to label something I say as "white knighting" or call me an "apologist" than it is to actually read something I've written objectively, especially if it's got some kind of jab at someone contained within. Plus, it's fun to argue. I never would have guessed that saying "I agree it shouldn't exist, but who has this problem anyways?" would have caught so much grief because of people's insecurities.

Nevermind.

[Grey Jorildyn]

"common sense" does not dictate that if I have an active quest and I run too far away from the objective, that the quest fails. What other MMO have you ever played where this happens? There is no basis for attributing such a priori knowledge to "common sense". What common sense does dictate is that when I have a quest active, unless there is a timer on my screen, and it expires, or there is a clearly define boundary that I must function within, and subsequently fail to, or there is an objective that I must complete, and do not, while said quest is flagged, then the quest does not and should never instantaneously fail.

If your common sense tells you that any of the above is true, then what you have is uncommon sense, or a bad case of the dumbs.

[sruon]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/997...enough-threads

[Achitophel]

If you think its that bad, whine to a mod about it. Otherwise you're just adding to the shit pile.

I'd rather just mock you guys.

[Lucavi]

I admit, I laughed at the common sense part. Somehow its common sense to mystically know where that an invisible boundary exists no more than 10 yards from a group of leve mobs. It is also common sense for there to be no warnings, visual, text-based or audo-based that tell you when you are at the threshold for crossing over. Clearly, this is all common sense. This is an excellent statement.

[shepardG]

Hey Guys, I just recently built a new house! Its beautiful, only most of the things inside don't work. What's weird is when you come in the front door, there's this 87ft deep well that I haven't told anyone about because its a fairly common thing... so anyway most of my friends don't want to visit me, EVEN THOUGH, if they fall into the pit AGAIN, its their fault. /shrug... also the house has walls and 96% of a ceiling aswell as what most folks call floors. You enter the unfinished house using a door handle. Why don't people visit me???

*COUGH*
this is how this" ask the devs" would have gone if bob villa ran SE.

[Groovebox]

Hey Guys, I just recently built a new house! Its beautiful, only most of the things inside don't work. What's weird is when you come in the front door, there's this 87ft deep well that I haven't told anyone about because its a fairly common thing... so anyway most of my friends don't want to visit me, EVEN THOUGH, if they fall into the pit AGAIN, its their fault. /shrug... also the house has walls and 96% of a ceiling aswell as what most folks call floors. You enter the unfinished house using a door handle. Why don't people visit me???

*COUGH*
this is how this" ask the devs" would have gone if bob villa ran SE.

LOL! But hey, Bob Villa would never fail that hard... he's the Chuck Norris of home improvement. This is becoming a great thread though... keep it up.

[Achitophel]

Hey Guys, I just recently built a new house! Its beautiful, only most of the things inside don't work. What's weird is when you come in the front door, there's this 87ft deep well that I haven't told anyone about because its a fairly common thing... so anyway most of my friends don't want to visit me, EVEN THOUGH, if they fall into the pit AGAIN, its their fault. /shrug... also the house has walls and 96% of a ceiling aswell as what most folks call floors. You enter the unfinished house using a door handle. Why don't people visit me???

*COUGH*
this is how this" ask the devs" would have gone if bob villa ran SE.

Hey guys, there's a dumb error in a game that doesn't effect the vast majority of the people the vast majority of the time, yet I'm still talking about it.

*COUGH*
this is how this thread would be if you were here...oh wait...

[pingpong]

Lets assign a severity # from 1-10 to each complaint (10 being "must fix asap"). I give this issue a 3. It needs to be fixed, but there's more important stuff.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I'd go with 11 - never should have been an issue to begin with.

[Riposte]

There are things that should be issues? (You are talking about nothing but 11s)

[Grey Jorildyn]

Well, that's true to an extent. I think there's a point of acceptable complication, and then another past that of unnecessary complication. Adding leve zonelines is the latter imo.

[shepardG]

Hey guys, there's a dumb error in a game that doesn't effect the vast majority of the people the vast majority of the time, yet I'm still talking about it.

*COUGH*
this is how this thread would be if you were here...oh wait...

Which is funnie, because that's EXACTLY what fucking SE did! WHY DID THIS FUCKING DESERVE AN "ASK THE DEV'S"????? seriously!?

That was my point, out of touch people that work on 14 are out of touch.

[Hyan]

I'd like to be aware of where the zone lines go, myself. They don't seem to be as obvious as before..

[Shazaam]

I'd like to be aware of where the zone lines go, myself. They don't seem to be as obvious as before..

I too would like to be aware of where the zone lines are.... and where I can find a Goblin Tinkerer to drag to the bottleneck so I can munch popcorn and watch him waste poor players just trying to make it into a town...

One of the best things in pre-CoP FFXI.

[Achitophel]

Which is funnie, because that's EXACTLY what fucking SE did! WHY DID THIS FUCKING DESERVE AN "ASK THE DEV'S"????? seriously!?

That was my point, out of touch people that work on 14 are out of touch.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

And just so you don't get whooshed without even knowing you were- a distinct possibility, it seems like- I'm talking about your whole post in relation to mine. As in, there is none.

[SayomiSassaki]

WHY DID THIS FUCKING DESERVE AN "ASK THE DEV'S"????? seriously!?

Because there is ppl asking these question... It's not because there is ppl who are "god" and understand all the game in one try that all the ppl understand it. And its not everyone who read on forum to understand the game. There was probably a lot of ppl wondering about these question so they post them to SE that's it...