Reducing Magic Damage

[nivlakian]

From the op's information, you need Shell V with 3 merits for -25% (which I assume you mean). Aegis/NoShellV.3 vs NoAegis/ShellV.3 would be something good to try like you suggested.

Also, remember -damage items work on the 256 system so even if it says -5% or whatever, that's not the true amount reduced.

[Valyana]

(and for that I would recommend using Shell 4 and other damage reduction items, since Valyana's numbers are his own and I have no idea how he arrived at them).

I got the -62/256 number for level 1 Shellra V from Fafnir: Wing dropped from 368 to 278. Then the Mijin Gakure numbers I observed confirmed it.

The -64/256 number for level 3 is from the Bahamut v2 thread I referenced, where Blackice says it's an even -25% magic damage. That seemed consistent with the number I observed and the game text saying that each upgrade adds "1 bonus magic defense" (not magic defense bonus).

I'd certainly be interested to see further testing.

[Tyche]

In sky on Water elemental. Naked...

Water IV w/ no shell: 518 damage
Water IV w/ ShellIV: 404 Damage

That's 22.01% damage reduction

56/256(shellIV mod as posted in OP) = 21.875%.

So if OP is correct in all of the values, and Fully upgraded shellra V is 64/256, that would be the exact damage reduction as Aegis, and thus, damage should be the exact same with either Aegis or Shellra V. Not both obviously.

[nivlakian]

In sky on Water elemental. Naked...

Water IV w/ no shell: 518 damage
Water IV w/ ShellIV: 404 Damage

That's 22.01% damage reduction

56/256(shellIV mod as posted in OP) = 21.875%.

So if OP is correct in all of the values, and Fully upgraded shellra V is 64/256, that would be the exact damage reduction as Aegis, and thus, damage should be the exact same with either Aegis or Shellra V. Not both obviously.

Well, that works out correctly... 518 (1 - 56/256) = 404.6875
which floors to 404

[Tyche]

This doesnt work out right though...

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7010/firehe9.jpg

[Suiram]

Like I said, Valyana's numbers for shell 5 are his own. You appear to have demonstrated that he was wrong, and that it's actually a 58/256 reduction.

[Iresire]

So, would it be worthwhile to compile a list of what abilities/TP moves fall under various categories? It doesn't have to be about every monster in the game.

Typical Magic Spells : INT, magic defense bonuse, magic damage taken -%, and resists all apply.

Meteor/Comet : All apply. (?) What exactly is meteor's element? I'm assuming it's "non-elemental," but can still be resisted.

Fluid Spread: Physical damage.
(Reference: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16210)

Mijin Gakure : Magic. Only magic damage -% works.

Hurricane Wing (wings in general?) : Magic. Cannot be resisted, but magic defense bonus and magic damage taken -% works (?)

What about self-destruct/hypothermal combustion? It's damage is based on the users remaining HP for sure.

What about breaths? They're based on users HP for sure. They also seem to be related as to where you stand in the front somehow. Well, this is true for Fafnir at least, from my understanding.

[Tyche]

Going by the description for the shellraV merit, it would go 58,59, and 60 for fully upgraded. So I doubt Aegis + Shellra V is going to hit the -magic damage taken cap alone.

[Ryko]

I think you can resist both the damage and the effects of wing with the right elemental resist (fire tia, ice jorm, earh ouryu).

[Valyana]

Well, that's pretty mysterious. Looking over saved logs from Dragon's Aery, I see a lot of numbers for people with Shellra V that match -62 or -64/256: On another day Nidhogg's Wing drops from 460 to 348 or 345. Was your gear the same for the two Firagas? What day was it?

Does anyone know whether Dream Shroud gives MDB or -magic damage taken, and how much? Magus's Roll?

[Genosync]

Well, that's pretty mysterious. Looking over saved logs from Dragon's Aery, I see a lot of numbers for people with Shellra V that match -62 or -64/256: On another day Nidhogg's Wing drops from 460 to 348 or 345. Was your gear the same for the two Firagas? What day was it?

Does anyone know whether Dream Shroud gives MDB or -magic damage taken, and how much? Magus's Roll?

Pretty sure Dream Shroud is like +4% MAB and MDB, I don't remember, and Magus' Roll caps out around 12% or something, gonna go look for the info now.

Edit: Meh, wiki doesn't give much info on either of them, 'cept it says Shroud is +3MAB for Diabolos at least, so it's probably gonna be +3MDB too. Roll I'm pretty sure, with a BLU in the party, caps out at 12% on an 11.

[Jeryhn]

Diabolos' Dream Shroud adds variable MAB and MDB based on the Vana'diel Hour.

For MAB, you get +1 MAB at 12:00 (Noon) and +13 MAB at 0:00 (Midnight).

Dunno about any tests done on MDB. Very possible that its similar to Fenrir's Ecliptic Bloodpacts (which are variable by moon phase) and that when one stat bonus gets higher, the other gets lower.

[Genosync]

Diabolos' Dream Shroud adds variable MAB and MDB based on the Vana'diel Hour.

For MAB, you get +1 MAB at 12:00 (Noon) and +13 MAB at 0:00 (Midnight).

Dunno about any tests done on MDB. Very possible that its similar to Fenrir's Ecliptic Bloodpacts (which are variable by moon phase) and that when one stat bonus gets higher, the other gets lower.

go fix wiki then fren

[Jeryhn]

Diabolos' Dream Shroud adds variable MAB and MDB based on the Vana'diel Hour.

For MAB, you get +1 MAB at 12:00 (Noon) and +13 MAB at 0:00 (Midnight).

Dunno about any tests done on MDB. Very possible that its similar to Fenrir's Ecliptic Bloodpacts (which are variable by moon phase) and that when one stat bonus gets higher, the other gets lower.

go fix wiki then fren

I was turned off from playing with FFXI Wiki in the last wave of drama involving Paralyze.

They more or less take most of their info from my Bloodpact Compilation anyway. You can find it on the Wiki as a link or on the KI SMN forums.

[Terrance]

Shell is not -magic, it does nothing to behemoth's meteor, and it does nothing to mijn. I've had people in party with shell on and I've canceled my own shell and we take the exact same damage. If the OP's tank party took less damage it was because they had bars or carols on or a sneaky BLU snuck in a diamond skin or it was just luck. I've tested this a lot and shell is NOT -magic.

INT only works on some things, it obviously does nothing to mijn, pretty sure it does nothing to wings or banish or citadel buster, I doubt it does anything to drain.

[Nagamaki]

I think you can resist both the damage and the effects of wing with the right elemental resist (fire tia, ice jorm, earh ouryu).

You can definitely resist wings, it just isn't worth trying to for Faf/Nid and happens very rarely if you aren't trying. Look at Tebbad Wing numbers over a fight, or numbers on Jorm or Ouryu's wings. Tanks with the appropriate elemental resist should have a pretty solid resist rate going on (and I do mean true resists, not mdb reduction). Even just a strong bar should be noticeable in resisting the additionnal effect part, from my experience as tank PT WHM.

[Therin]

I think you can resist both the damage and the effects of wing with the right elemental resist (fire tia, ice jorm, earh ouryu).

You can definitely resist wings, it just isn't worth trying to for Faf/Nid and happens very rarely if you aren't trying. Look at Tebbad Wing numbers over a fight, or numbers on Jorm or Ouryu's wings. Tanks with the appropriate elemental resist should have a pretty solid resist rate going on (and I do mean true resists, not mdb reduction). Even just a strong bar should be noticeable in resisting the additionnal effect part, from my experience as tank PT WHM.

Yeah, I rarely get Plagued during a Tiamat fight because all of his wings are resisted (well, wings while in the air).

[Narse]

Going by the description for the shellraV merit, it would go 58,59, and 60 for fully upgraded. So I doubt Aegis + Shellra V is going to hit the -magic damage taken cap alone.

When I've tested on Tiamat, Aegis + Shell V (I'm not positive on the level of Shell V) + -2% magic damage capped me. Any additional -% I put on would have no effect from that point, so I have to start stacking + MDB to gain additional effects.

[RKenshin]

Shell is not -magic, it does nothing to behemoth's meteor,

I strongly disagree, unless you can explain why unbuffed AV's Meteor easily does 1.7k-2k+ damage... And buffed it does 800-900 damage. Buffs only including capped Shellra V and -23% magic damage from gear. -23% alone isn't enough to reduce the damage taken from Meteor by over half.

Reduced damage shown in screen:
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9094/79ua7.jpg

Those are just two examples of the 8+ times I got those numbers, so it's not some fluke resist. The bottom one was a single target Meteor that hit only me, so I'm relatively sure there's no type of reduction when it hits multiple targets.

Meteor is still Meteor whoever casts it, so I don't see how AV's Meteor would count Shell as -magic taken and KB's wouldn't. It just doesn't even make sense or seem possible at all. But if you're wrong on that test then what's to say the same test with Mijin wasn't flawed?

[Valyana]

Shell is not -magic

Well, there seems to be a fair amount of disagreement on that point, which is the main reason I posted.

, it does nothing to behemoth's meteor, and it does nothing to mijn. I've had people in party with shell on and I've canceled my own shell and we take the exact same damage. If the OP's tank party took less damage it was because they had bars or carols on or a sneaky BLU snuck in a diamond skin or it was just luck. I've tested this a lot and shell is NOT -magic.

We did have Barfira on, but I'm dubious that bars/carols would have caused exactly the amount of damage reduction predicted for Shell; I don't think it's possible to resist something from 1093 to 853 (me BRD/WHM with Shell IV) and 828 (NIN/WARs with Shellra V.1), I think any resists would be 546 damage or lower. And there wasn't a SMN or BLU or PLD in party to Stoneskin people.

I'm puzzled that your testing showed no benefit from Shell. Is it possible that this changed at some point?

INT only works on some things, it obviously does nothing to mijn, pretty sure it does nothing to wings or banish or citadel buster, I doubt it does anything to drain.

Yes, I think it only affects nukes.

When I've tested on Tiamat, Aegis + Shell V (I'm not positive on the level of Shell V) + -2% magic damage capped me.

Did you test Aegis + Shell V + -1% magic damage (-2/256)? If my numbers are correct, that should be enough for level 1 or 2 Shellra V, and just Aegis + Shell V for level 3.

If the -58-60/256 numbers are correct, Aegis + Shell V + -2% (-5/256) should be enough for level 2 or 3 Shellra V, but not quite capped for level 1.

I was turned off from playing with FFXI Wiki in the last wave of drama involving Paralyze.

The end result of that drama was removing Nynaeve's admin privs and recruiting Divisortheory, so you might give it another chance.