Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[Flic]

Yeah, burtgang does go above cap I believe, and pld can hit 50% now without sword, its just how much you wanna give up.

[jimbobsonofgod]

The 90 version had AM3 at only 120 seconds right?

Pretty sure the 120>180 was actually 80 there was no increase in aftermath duration at 85,90,95

[Martel]

Pretty sure the 120>180 was actually 80 there was no increase in aftermath duration at 85,90,95

Oh, you're right. Checked BG wiki.

[Lyramion]

Burtgang like Aegis now goes above the +50% PDT cap right? if so with proper gear and is currently available you can achieve 50% PDT, altho it does require defending ring to do so, at best you could get is 62% PDT which is still pretty hot when you take into how much your shield blocks will do for you along side it for the Oshit moments seeing as a bunch of NMs love to give you weakened status effect, so I'd say Burtgang isn't buried deep down in the garbage, more like laying on top.

This update brought a lot of PDT gear useable by PLD:

Mollusca Mantle -5% damage taken
Flume Belt -4% PDT
Magma Gauntlets -4% PDT

also Chersos Helm -4% PDT 4% Haste instead of the Valhalla Helms Slow.


It´s possible to brickwall up pretty hard now even without Dring and nonperfect DarkRings.

[Aragon of Odin]

Isn't Shadow Mantle closer to 10%, so beats out Mollusca for PDT?

[Taint]

Isn't Shadow Mantle closer to 10%, so beats out Mollusca for PDT?

I think Kirschy mathed out anything below 36% pdt, Shadow was better, anything above -pdt was better. (until you cap ofcourse)

[Zag]

.

[Zag]

Pretty sure the 120>180 was actually 80 there was no increase in aftermath duration at 85,90,95

I thought Level 75 version was 30>60>90 on AM1 AM2 and AM3?? Or was it just 30,30,30 secs on all 3 aftermaths... Been so long.

180 sounds broken as hell though thats why I asked again. That gives you time to use whatever WS you want during aftermath that is stronger for your weapon while still keeping the AM3 up always with Occ attacks 2-3 times.

Not until someone gets it and actually quantifies the Martial Arts bonus.

Kirschy, does OA2-3 still proc on WS?

The IV tier doesn't seem to work on ANY mythic. so far this includes COR death penalty, Liberator, Conqueror. This might be a glitch that gets fixed with an emergency maintenance. The 4 was on the level 90 version too so the level 99 version might be tier IV only as well. But if Martial Arts V at level 99 does happen, and with already very low delay of +49 plus the fact that PUP has more haste options in gear to cap at level 99 makes this weapon hit like the speed of light. On top of that fast speed... The weapon can occ attack 3 times and MAYBE even occ attack 4 times at level 99. Won't be suprised if this isn't better then level 99 vere, (if it isn't already) better including pet bonus aftermath.

That pretty much make:
Conqueror top Gaxe or at least equal to Ukonvasara.
Ryunohige are now like miles ahead of 2nd best polearm
Terpsi best support and maybe DD dagger for DNC(?)
Aymur best DD option for BST? 2-3 on pet should be kinda strong

Both h2h are kinda hard to tell.

Kind of curious if anyone ran tests on the additional effect % from the relic weapons. Like if Apoc has a higher % on additional effect: Blind or it the actual blind effect got more potent.

I only ask this with excalibur in mind... Higher additional effect proc on excalibur would be sweet. Either way, excalibur add effect gets stronger since HP rises as levels rise anyway I guess.

[Atoreis]

I thought Level 75 version was 30>60>90 on AM1 AM2 and AM3?? Or was it just 30,30,30 secs on all 3 aftermaths... Been so long.

180 sounds broken as hell though thats why I asked again. That gives you time to use whatever WS you want during aftermath that is stronger for your weapon while still keeping the AM3 up always with Occ attacks 2-3 times.

Yeah but on what mithic you would spam something else than mythic ws?

Gaxe? I am pretty sure 15%boosted KJ is better than Raging rush in most cases outside (beside 1 min with blood rage up maybe)
Polearm? no
Swords? none cares
Scythe? no
Daggers? Probably but pyrric still will be used widely outside
H2H? Mnk one hardly with 2-3up and Pup for sure no.

That leave axe, gkt, katana. Katana sucks anyway so that leaves 2 weapons.

The IV tier doesn't seem to work on ANY mythic. so far this includes COR death penalty, Liberator, Conqueror. This might be a glitch that gets fixed with an emergency maintenance. The 4 was on the level 90 version too so the level 99 version might be tier IV only as well. But if Martial Arts V at level 99 does happen, and with already very low delay of +49 plus the fact that PUP has more haste options in gear to cap at level 99 makes this weapon hit like the speed of light. On top of that fast speed... The weapon can occ attack 3 times and MAYBE even occ attack 4 times at level 99. Won't be suprised if this isn't better then level 99 vere, (if it isn't already) better including pet bonus aftermath.

No matter how much it will have it still will be capped at 0.2 delay. So would only matter for some lowman when lacking a brd.
H2Hs are fucked (like always) and 2-3 is only for 1 hand putting it at ~20DA%~10%TA for now. It can still be enough to put KKK on top of Veret tho. Remember tho that mythics power comes from getting more hits from aftermath than losing to get to 300TP. With only 1 hand da/ta and very low tp per hit it might be hard for KKK to justify storing 300TP in many situations.

[Byrthnoth]

I thought Level 75 version was 30>60>90 on AM1 AM2 and AM3?? Or was it just 30,30,30 secs on all 3 aftermaths... Been so long.

180 sounds broken as hell though thats why I asked again. That gives you time to use whatever WS you want during aftermath that is stronger for your weapon while still keeping the AM3 up always with Occ attacks 2-3 times.

I tried to summarize the stuff here, but the formatting is kind of ass.

The IV tier doesn't seem to work on ANY mythic. so far this includes COR death penalty, Liberator, Conqueror. This might be a glitch that gets fixed with an emergency maintenance. The 4 was on the level 90 version too so the level 99 version might be tier IV only as well. But if Martial Arts V at level 99 does happen, and with already very low delay of +49 plus the fact that PUP has more haste options in gear to cap at level 99 makes this weapon hit like the speed of light. On top of that fast speed... The weapon can occ attack 3 times and MAYBE even occ attack 4 times at level 99. Won't be suprised if this isn't better then level 99 vere, (if it isn't already) better including pet bonus aftermath.

I don't know exactly what you're saying here, but what I meant is that I don't trust what we "know" about the Martial Arts bonus on Kenkonken. Level 75, testing indicated that it did not reduce TP/hit, which is why the wikia page says:
"The enhancement to Martial Arts simply gives another tier of Martial Arts which is equal to another -20 delay without TP penalty."
Now, as far as I know, the only accurate way to quantify Martial Arts traits is to use the TP penalty. If they didn't see a TP penalty, how did they quantify the Martial Arts? I'd like to believe they FRAPsed everything with such accuracy that they could tell the difference between 10 and 20 delay, but realistically they were probably just eyeballing or hopeful, which means that we probably don't actually know what the MA enhancement on Kenkonken is. -5 or -10 delay would not have reduced TP/hit at 75 PUP, and those are the potency of all other Martial Arts enhancements in the game, so they seem like more likely candidates.

Kind of curious if anyone ran tests on the additional effect % from the relic weapons. Like if Apoc has a higher % on additional effect: Blind or it the actual blind effect got more potent.

Kirschy tested the Additional Effect proc rate on Apoc a while ago, but only at level . . . 85? I don't know, someone correct me. It's about the same for every additional effect weapon tbqh.

[AzazaelFenrir]

Kind of curious if anyone ran tests on the additional effect % from the relic weapons. Like if Apoc has a higher % on additional effect: Blind or it the actual blind effect got more potent.

I only ask this with excalibur in mind... Higher additional effect proc on excalibur would be sweet. Either way, excalibur add effect gets stronger since HP rises as levels rise anyway I guess.

KParse refuses to work for me for some reason, but I still have an 85 excal (for a few more days at least). Give me an easy way to find out add effect procs via log files and I will give you any info you want.

[Zag]

I tried to summarize the stuff here, but the formatting is kind of ass.





I don't know exactly what you're saying here, but what I meant is that I don't trust what we "know" about the Martial Arts bonus on Kenkonken. Level 75, testing indicated that it did not reduce TP/hit, which is why the wikia page says:
"The enhancement to Martial Arts simply gives another tier of Martial Arts which is equal to another -20 delay without TP penalty."
Now, as far as I know, the only accurate way to quantify Martial Arts traits is to use the TP penalty. If they didn't see a TP penalty, how did they quantify the Martial Arts? I'd like to believe they FRAPsed everything with such accuracy that they could tell the difference between 10 and 20 delay, but realistically they were probably just eyeballing or hopeful, which means that we probably don't actually know what the MA enhancement on Kenkonken is. -5 or -10 delay would not have reduced TP/hit at 75 PUP, and those are the potency of all other Martial Arts enhancements in the game, so they seem like more likely candidates.



Kirschy tested the Additional Effect proc rate on Apoc a while ago, but only at level . . . 85? I don't know, someone correct me. It's about the same for every additional effect weapon tbqh.

I made a mistake. I thought the level 95 weapons had Tier V stats written but Tier IV stats in the actual game. I realized they are written the same Tier IV as the level 90. They will probably stay at this level.

Asc. Fury can triple attack with AM3 and plus the occ. attacks 3 times with DOT, I would think would compete with Vere outside of abyssea but holding of 300tp is also a bitch so idk... I wanna hope vere wins at level 99 cause I have a vere lol so im being biased but glanzfaust was a huge bitch to get so they deserve it... I would rage if I spend my life away on a mythic just to get boned. 5 days to get a vere was enough life wasting lol.

[Kirschy]

I'm a little late, but a few things~ In the case of Liberator 'Augments "Absorb" spells IV' was also on the Lv90 version, so there no expectation of an upgrade @ Lv95 once we got a look at the DATs from Test Server. The same applies for most of the other weapons for example KKK's Lv90 and Lv95 both says 'Enhances "Martial Arts" effect IV'. I verified there's no change for Liberator, and I believe DP was verified to have no change, so I don't think anything hidden is going on there. I expect there will be one last augment @ Lv99 version for a Tier V bonus.

The AM3's duration didn't change and stayed at 180, which from experience is the perfect amount of time. When you factor in more forms of haste and easier access to sTP gear, maintaining 300TP and re-building to 300tp to keep AM3 active is much easier than it was at Lv75. There's still plenty of situations where keeping up AM3 isn't worthwhile, but more importantly is that there's many situations where it is useful. I feel they've getting close to a perfect balance and look forward to the changes in upcoming updates.

If you dig around and find my Lv 85 + 90 Apoc testing, I posted stats for proc rate on Add Effect: Blind. I recall it being around 10%. I just used Kparser to count my hits, and used Notepad++'s count/find feature for "Addition Effect: Blind". (I love being able to search logs for useful info like that!)

I haven't gotten around to a longer test /w AM3 for it's distribution, I'm hoping to get that done this weekend. I'll also try messing with DA/TA to see how they interact. As for the AM3 procing multiple times on WS. I don't mind doing a slightly large sample size, but it's hard to prove something can't happen. How many times would I need to WS with AM3 to prove(within reason) AM3 can't proc twice? (Assuming 40/40/20 distribution with 5% miss rate.) I can also use TA+ atma /w AM3 and see if I can get in an 8 hit Insurgency. (3 + 3 + 1 + 1)

[jimbobsonofgod]

I tried to summarize the stuff here

I don't know why the aftermath structure is different for tizona when it follows the first, and i'm not 100% sure but i'm fairly certain that all mythic aftermath is the same. But You can remove tizona from the funky list cause it does indeed keep the aftermath of the first duration structure.

The duration aftermath effect was extended at 80 not only for the third level but the first and second level as well.
(here is the discovery post)

Some information:
AM1 is now 1:30 in duration, an extension of 30s
AM2 is now 2:00 in duration, an extension of 30s
AM3 is now 3:00 in duration, an extension of 60s

from this thread http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/907...ugments/page24

[Byrthnoth]

You'd need to see a 7+ hit Insurgency with no DA/TA to conclude that it could proc 2x on WS.

DA+TA AM3 proc + connect on all 7 hits = .95^7*.2*.4 = 5.6% chance
TA+TA AM3 proc + connect on at least 7 hits = .95^7*.2*.2 = 2.8% chance

The first case can happen two ways (TA -> DA or DA -> TA), so there's actually are 14% chance you'll see a 7+ hit insurgency with AM3 up assuming it can proc on two swings of WS. That means there's an 86% chance of not seeing it. 86%^20 = 5%, so (barring all the egregious stats errors I probably just made in my ignorance) you can be 95% confident that it can't happen if you don't see it in 20 WSs. Because we don't know that 40/40/20 is the exact distribution, it might be smarter to do 30 or firm that up first. Heck, just keep track of your TP returns while you do the longer DA/TA test and you can do both at once.

Edit: Wait, Jimbob... Tizona has the 60/90/120 initial aftermath structure? Geeze! I don't know where I got the information to the contrary, but I remember thinking it was fairly decisive. So level 80 is 90/120/180?

Ah, this is what made me think that. Does he not have a mythic?

[jimbobsonofgod]

, this is what made me think that. Does he not have a mythic?

the first is 1.5 minutes
the second is just under 4 and a 1/2 minutes
the third is 3 minutes

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f.../aftermath.jpg

[Byrthnoth]

Okay, so Tizona is a third type of weird.
AM1: 90 seconds
AM2: 270 seconds
AM3: 180 seconds
They all show up as about 3 seconds shorter in the log because text message shows up at the end of animation. So, all your aftermaths probably increased by 50% at 80.

Is AM2 for Liberator really 120 seconds, or is it 135 seconds? Breakin mah level 80 trend!

[jimbobsonofgod]

Well if h2h follows the same pattern you can just redo the AM1-2 portion of the second chart.

[Kirschy]

Is AM2 for Liberator really 120 seconds, or is it 135 seconds? Breakin mah level 80 trend!

[00:45:20]Kirschy readies Insurgency.

[00:47:20]Kirschy's Aftermath: Lv.2 effect wears off.

120 seconds for sure~

[Taim Meich]

I don't know exactly what you're saying here, but what I meant is that I don't trust what we "know" about the Martial Arts bonus on Kenkonken. Level 75, testing indicated that it did not reduce TP/hit, which is why the wikia page says:
"The enhancement to Martial Arts simply gives another tier of Martial Arts which is equal to another -20 delay without TP penalty."
Now, as far as I know, the only accurate way to quantify Martial Arts traits is to use the TP penalty. If they didn't see a TP penalty, how did they quantify the Martial Arts? I'd like to believe they FRAPsed everything with such accuracy that they could tell the difference between 10 and 20 delay, but realistically they were probably just eyeballing or hopeful, which means that we probably don't actually know what the MA enhancement on Kenkonken is. -5 or -10 delay would not have reduced TP/hit at 75 PUP, and those are the potency of all other Martial Arts enhancements in the game, so they seem like more likely candidates.

For what it's worth, I asked one or two months ago a 90 Kenkonken owner via PM on FFXIAH, and he told me it was -10 delay per level, so -40 at level IV. That is consistent with the lack of change in TP/hit @75, but of course isn't proof enough.

Also, I thought that, when SE changed the way OAT/OA2-3 worked with magian H2H weapons (they made them proc on both hits), they would change that for all OAT/OA2-3 H2H weapons. I guess a mythic MNK or PUP could confirm or deny, but I know no one.