Ethical to download (un)licensed anime?

[Maguspk]

Went to an 'anime store' today in downtown Bellevue called 'Anime Raku.' The merchandise was pretty cool but I noticed it was all legit, like licensed stuff so I casually asked the guy if everything was licensed and how he felt about watching downloaded anime that was unlicensed in the US. Holy shit, this dude went off on a calm rant for like a good 10 minutes which I had to politely excuse myself from while he was mid sentence. Among other things he reiterated how it was 'impatient' to download anime and was really lame and unsupportive of the studios.

While I've always justified my downloading of other things, like music, with my purchasing of merchandise at concerts and tickets and such, which more directly benefit the bands, what he said got me thinking:

"How do I support the studios and artists who provide me with the anime I enjoy consuming?"

In all honesty, I do not. We do not see commercials when we watch downloaded anime, and if we do, like Morning Rescue (lol), they are irrelevant and do not serve their intended purpose. I almost feel bad now and feel an obligation to begin buying things directly from Japan (not this relicensed shit in the US) to support my favorite studios like GAINAX and Shaft.

tl;dr How do you feel about downloading anime for free, do you 'give back' in any way to support the studios? Do you feel an obligation to do so?

[Avvesione]

OMFG WE LIVE IN THE SAME CITY!

brb going to actually ready your post after stoping at Bellevue and Anime Raku.

Edit: okay, read you post. I do whenever I can, but it's not my top priority.

[Rivero]

Nope. I think enjoying the work they have made even though it isn't available to me through normal mediums (stores/tvs/local studios) is enough of a sign to show support. Plus, there really isn't a way of supporting them aside from getting DVD/Blu-Ray imports and usually it's very expensive/hard to obtain/sometimes doesn't come subbed/etc.

[EagleCeres]

It's difficult to offer input on this... there's a lot to cover, but here's some of my take on it:

a) some series are just not commercial enough to garner enough sales for the licensees (because they don't believe there is a market for new and unknown series "aaa" or "bbb" vs the uber popular and over exposed "ccc" and "ddd"), and even when they DO get the green light, all the stuff that gets cut because of "sex, violence, teaching our kids right"... making us consume more on "Uncut/directors edition" versions and/or dvd/bd box sets (there goes my paycheck!)

b) the ongoing stigma in the west that cartoons/anime being just for kids; sure... there have been strides to get this mindset changed; and there are very few big name/big money/big clout companies take few risks with seemingly profitable studios/projects (disney and ghibli as prime examples...) but what about gainax, shaft, deen, and all those other studios that push the envelope on what is safe for kiddies, teens, young adults, etc... even then most of the times these western companies just get animators to do their series in an "anime style" to get the new generations/demographics... *cough*DC*cough*Marvel*cough*

c) the huge amount of anime released each year/season, as fans we wade through series and give them 2-3 eps chance before we decide if we want to keep downloading or not... now what about possible licensees, it's not just what to pick and choose which series to back, but how and who to market it to... (so many mecha/super robot series out there, and the only thing we get is certain gundam series... talk about playing it safe... don't get me started on magical girl series...)

d) studios in japan still working within their target demographics, possibly not considering audiences outside of their original scope, leaving us anime consumers around the world out in the cold unless we pay higher than premium prices for the shows and collectibles (oh macross... i still want all those sexy sexy mecha *drool*)


personally, I'd LOVE to support the original studios, maybe if they recognized that their market isn't exclusive to the land of the rising sun; possibly work with licensees more, offer quality subs with their dvd/bd sets at decent prices; until then we're stuck with whatever the licensees take a chance on and the collectibles (some questionable quality there) we see at our favorite stores

[Souj]

I support anime I like by watching it on T.V. if it comes on in the states, just like I watch american tv shows.
However I don't buy dvds/blurays for them because I am not willing to spend $30 on four 20minute episodes. If we get to the point where I can pick up an entire season for that price, like american tv shows, I'll gladly purchase some.

[octopus]

I buy manga. That's one way to directly support them (they're cheap too, compared to dvd/blu-ray!).

I also buy anime magazines/figures/calendars/T-shirts/video games/other goods. It's not significant amount of money but that's one way I justify downloading, I guess.

[Mrbeansman]

It's not like buying non imported DVDs helps in any way.

[Elcura]

I'd buy anime if it were cheaper. But paying £20+ for 3-4 episodes? Fuck that. I'll buy published manga, but never anime.

[Jojimbo]

There's some box sets on amazon for around that price; but generally only once they have been out a while (box sets are much much cheaper than buying per volume anyway).

I only buy stuff which I like (provided I remember to check by the time it's out) or cheap boxsets I haven't seen before (the ones that go for £10~30 on amazon basically). Currently buying FMA:B because I never got round to watching it while it aired in JP but I tend to buy more manga than anime anyway (esp if I watched part of the anime but haven't read the manga).

I don't even think we have an anime TV channel in the UK (not that I have sky any more even if there is now), last one I remember started at 11pm or something and showed GITS/Cowboy bebop dubs for a few hours >.>

[Byrthnoth]

If I'm downloading content I wouldn't pay for, then the company isn't losing money. I watch a lot more shit than I'd pay for.

[Ksandra]

sorta a side rant but it makes me wonder how/if they get any support when someone watches it via netflix, which has become my primary source for anime. I've never been a fan of downloading unless it's something not available otherwise (aka need a fan sub to understand it). It is obvious though that anime here has taken a huge hit in sales. If you look at most anime now, the only major distributor left is Funamation and they've bought most of the other major series (ADV is gone, manga corp is gone, etc. etc.). This actually makes me a little sad. When anime first got dubbed a lot of it was crap so I can see the stigma of "SUB ONRY" but they improved pretty quickly by the 2000s. And I actually prefer usually dub with subtitles (to see the differences). That way I don't have to pay too much attention to the writing and can just enjoy the show. yayaya usually the JP is still better, but I don't give a shit as much as I used to back when I was anime nerdy. I just want to sit back and relax, and I just don't care anymore.

AS other's said they fucked themselves over with prices, but ya I don't know how much longer we're even going to be able to get american-distributed anime anymore.

[Mrbeansman]

On another side note how the fuck has Crunchy Roll managed to stay afloat? There are really people who pay a stupid amount of money to watch shit quality fan subs?

[Cleverness]

I'd buy anime if prices were reasonable, as someone else mentioned. I can get a whole season of a good american TV show for 20-30, why should I similarly pay that much for 1-2 hours of anime? That's not even movie prices for the same allotted time. And considering the length of some anime(let's assume the average length of 26/52 episodes), that adds up. They've actually done a good job of trying to offer anime almost right after it airs in Japan with official subs(Naruto appears about a week after airing on Hulu iirc), so it's nice to see they are catching up with what people want. If they somehow blocked regular anime streams I'd resort to that, but considering the large amount of anime that comes out every year I doubt they would be willing to do that for every one of them.

Seriously doubt it, but do they throw these subs up on Netflix too? Don't have it so I figured I'd ask

[arus2001]

Cost and delay in distribution are my biggest gripes toward physical consumption. If fans can sub a show hours after airing, official channels could have a sub version ready before the official airing. Additionally, the dubbing process could also be underway, cutting the usual 6+ month wait to maybe one or two. However, if they make their choice on what to dub based on a given show's popularity, waiting 12 weeks for a 12 episode series is already shooting themselves in the foot since potential fans will have likely heard about it before then and went about their usual means of digital distribution.

[hey]

The day i can get reasonably priced BDs with non-localized subs, from companies that did more than just translate the dialogue, i will consider paying for them. Until then, i will continue downloading it, and support them by importing overpriced merchandise.

Fuck dubs. If companies don't want to release anime with the original japanese voices, and instead use shitty american VAs, they are not getting a cent from me.

Fuck licensed subs. Companies that provided zero artistic input into the creation of the anime, and did nothing more than provide a crappy translation don't deserve my money. If i wanted to support the industry, i would support the industry that actually creates something of value. If i wanted to pay for subbed anime, i'd import the BDs from japan, and download some subs from the internet.

tl;dr it makes no difference to me whether it's licensed or not, because the studios that actually make the shows don't make much money from foreign sales, so if i want to support them, i have to buy directly from them. Buying licensed anime to support the studio makes about as much sense as buying a music cd to support a band (whom often never see a single cent from album sales).

There's nothing unethical about refusing to support a company that does nothing but sells other peoples' creative works. If you want to support someone, support the artists.

[Man0warr]

On another side note how the fuck has Crunchy Roll managed to stay afloat? There are really people who pay a stupid amount of money to watch shit quality fan subs?

I pay for and watch Crunchy Roll for shows that I want to watch but don't feel the need to have a digital copy (to rewatch). $8 a month or whatever is trivial. Plus I know that money is going directly to japanese tv stations/studios.

The subs for CR are comparable or better than almost every fansub group, and some of their translations come straight from the TV stations. Not to mention a lot of fansub groups actually use CR translations for their releases. They don't do karaoke but I don't really care about that anyways.

As for other series I download to watch, I wouldn't buy the US DVDs even if they were available so they aren't losing any money from me. Also, I'm not sure if it's changed, but I'm pretty sure for most series (especially the less mainstream ones) US companies that license anime pay a flat fee for a series and Japan doesn't get any kickbacks from DVD sales other than that.

[Ksandra]

Seriously doubt it, but do they throw these subs up on Netflix too? Don't have it so I figured I'd ask

y/n all anime on netflix is american licensed stuff. If you stream it there is only the dubbed version, but when you do the regular mail one you get the actual disc so can watch the sub version.

[Tymon]

I do not support the industry directly because the industry does not make it easy for me to do so.

If I really like a series, and it has an American release, I usually buy the blu-ray set.

I would never wait for a series to get licensed. That usually takes a very long time; sometimes a year, sometimes never happens. Am I supposed to just say "Oh well, maybe next time" if it doesn't get licensed?

That's like the Tales series of games, except there's no way around that problem.

[Tymon]

There's one other thing though, unrelated, that I can't really understand.

A lot of people are absolutely fanatical about localization of fansubs. They'll drop a fansub group for translating "Onii-chan" wrong.

What's wrong with someone translating "Onii-chan, ecchi!" as "Brother, you pervert!"? That's what it means.

[Mrbeansman]

There's one other thing though, unrelated, that I can't really understand.

A lot of people are absolutely fanatical about localization of fansubs. They'll drop a fansub group for translating "Onii-chan" wrong.

What's wrong with someone translating "Onii-chan, ecchi!" as "Brother, you pervert!"? That's what it means.

Can you honestly tell me you've met one person that refers to their brother as "brother". If an anime takes place in japan why can't characters talk like their from japan? What I never understood is that I can think of only one american company that still leaves honorifics out of their translations and that's VIZs jump realeases and yet companies still don't use them in anime.

EDIT That said there definitly should be a big fat line to drawn when comes to what words are translated.