Georgia/Arizona push abortion law to 20 weeks

[Ragnus]

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012...ivestock-bill/

After an emotional 14-hour workday that included fist-fights between lobbyists and a walk-out by women Democrats, the Georgia House passed a Senate-approved bill Thursday night that criminalizes abortion after 20 weeks.

The bill, which does not contain rape or incest exemptions, is expected to receive a signature from Republican Gov. Nathan Deal.

Commonly referred to as the “fetal pain bill” by Georgian Republicans and as the “women as livestock bill” by everyone else, HB 954 garnered national attention this month when state Rep. Terry England (R-Auburn) compared pregnant women carrying stillborn fetuses to the cows and pigs on his farm. According to Rep. England and his warped thought process, if farmers have to “deliver calves, dead or alive,” then a woman carrying a dead fetus, or one not expected to survive, should have to carry it to term.

The bill as first proposed outlawed all abortions after 20 weeks under all circumstances. After negotiations with the Senate, the House passed a revised HB 954 that makes an exemption for “medically futile” pregnancies or those in which the woman’s life or health is threatened.

If this makes its seem like Rep. England and the rest of the representatives looked beyond their cows and pigs and recognized women as capable, full-thinking human beings, think again: HB 954 excludes a woman’s “emotional or mental condition,” which means women suffering from mental illness would be forced to carry a pregnancy to term. It also ignores pregnant women who are suicidal and driven to inflict harm on themselves because of their unwanted pregnancy.

In order for a pregnancy to be considered “medically futile,” the fetus must be diagnosed with an irreversible chromosomal or congenital anomaly that is “incompatible with sustaining life after birth.” The Georgia “fetal pain” bill also stipulates that the abortion must be performed in such a way that the fetus emerges alive. If doctors perform the abortion differently, they face felony charges and up to 10 years in prison. Given all this, the so-called compromise suddenly does not look like much of a bargain.

For anti-choice lawmakers, it is an item of faith that fetuses feel pain at 20 weeks. But scientists disagree. Reviews of all existing medical evidence have found that fetuses have not developed the neurological structures to feel pain until at least 25 weeks, and likely not until 28 weeks, in the third trimester.

Although Roe v. Wade set the precedent for abortion to be legal up to 24 weeks, state legislatures continue to ram through restrictive anti-choice laws. Georgia will join six other states with fetal pain restrictions—Nebraska, Indiana, Idaho, Kansas, Oklahoma and Alabama. North Carolina prohibits abortion after 20 weeks.

Arizona is now poised to join the roster, as the Senate passed a 20-week abortion restriction Tuesday. The bill, which awaits final approval from the House, also requires women seeking abortions to look at a state-run website littered with anti-choice propaganda.

And in the Northeast, arguably the country’s most pro-choice region, the New Hampshire House voted Thursday to ban abortion after 20 weeks. The bill now moves to the Senate to join four other anti-abortion bills passed by the House this month.

Although GOP’s war on women continues to deal blow after blow, this week held two small victories: The Oklahoma Supreme Court struck down mandated ultrasounds while the Idaho House dropped the ultrasound bill all together.
Photo from Public Domain Image.

[Sera]

Pretty sad day for Georgia and for the US.

[Melena]

I'm all for abortion rights and a firm believer in what goes on between a doctor and a woman is no one's business, but why are people freaking out at 20 weeks. That's 5 months along. Obviously there should be exceptions in there, especially if the woman's life is in danger, but for your run of the mill birth control abortion, i would think you would know well before twenty weeks along that's what you want.

[Ragnus]

I'm not freaking out about the twenty weeks thing which I agree is a very long time. I'm pissed at the politician who made a direct comparison between human women and fucking livestock.

[Melena]

Fuck I missed that, and i'd be pissed as fuck about that as well.

[Ksandra]

I'm all for abortion rights and a firm believer in what goes on between a doctor and a woman is no one's business, but why are people freaking out at 20 weeks. That's 5 months along. Obviously there should be exceptions in there, especially if the woman's life is in danger, but for your run of the mill birth control abortion, i would think you would know well before twenty weeks along that's what you want.

I have to agree with this. If doctors are saying they think fetuses may start getting feeling at 25, and the law was set at 24 that is a pretty close gap when they aren't completely sure. 20 weeks is fine as you said, if you don't know at 5 months then idk what to tell you.

Though I agree with Ragnus that they said it all fuckwad retarded.

[Jonny]

i think the problem with that bill is men(other people) telling women what to do with their body.

[hey]

i think the problem with that bill is men(other people) telling women what to do with their body.

Nah bro, they can do whatever they want with their own body. They just can't do anything to the bodies of parasites living inside of them.

[Ksandra]

i think the problem with that bill is men(other people) telling women what to do with their body.

How else can they do it? Have a woman's only house-senate for anything woman related? That's extremely unrealistic.

Again, don't get me wrong, the way they said it was fucking stupid as hell, but the idea of needing it by X amount of weeks is more about the potential harm to the fetus, male or female.

[Lucavi]

So what if it were a bunch of lady politicians saying the same thing? At some point, I have to agree that it becomes less about you and your body and about personal responsibility for your actions. 5 months along is not 5 days after you figured out you were pregnant and took a pill to "handle the problem". You're over halfway to delivery at 5 months.

I have no issues with the amount of time, but the guy tying to compare women to livestock is doing wonderful things for the republican party. That kind of rhetoric will fire up the opposition's base no matter what the topic is.

[Niiro]

I'm all for abortion rights and a firm believer in what goes on between a doctor and a woman is no one's business, but why are people freaking out at 20 weeks. That's 5 months along. Obviously there should be exceptions in there, especially if the woman's life is in danger, but for your run of the mill birth control abortion, i would think you would know well before twenty weeks along that's what you want.

I would agree with you but its a potential slippery slope issue.

Given that (I would think) most abortions probably occur long before the 20 or 25 week point it may seem arbitrary to make such a restriction, but once something like this passes its only a matter of time before someone starts pushing for 18 weeks, 16, 12, etc.

[Ksandra]

I would agree with you but its a potential slippery slope issue.

Given that (I would think) most abortions probably occur long before the 20 or 25 week point it may seem arbitrary to make such a restriction, but once something like this passes its only a matter of time before someone starts pushing for 18 weeks, 16, 12, etc.

Slippery slopes are terrible, and we shouldn't base laws out of fear of it.

[Dimmauk]

If the women gets depressed about delivering a still born baby, they should get a sex change to cheer them up.

[Sera]

Stuff like this should be left up to the woman and her doctor. At 8 weeks, at 14 weeks, at 20 weeks. People have all sorts of problems and issues that crop up. Special circumstances happen all the time. No one should have a hand in deciding what can and should be done except the woman in question and her care provider. Period. Case closed.

[Acturus]

Where is age of viability at now?

[Seanr]

7

[Ksandra]

7

That's sooner than I'd think lol.

So that makes me wonder, what is it that makes doctors think they don't feel pain until 21-24 weeks? I find this shit fascinating.

[edit] fix'd 'cause I fail at math.

lolwiki but they have an interesting chart on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

According to studies between 2003 and 2005, 20 to 35 percent of babies born at 23 weeks of gestation survive, while 50 to 70 percent of babies born at 24 to 25 weeks, and more than 90 percent born at 26 to 27 weeks, survive.[2] It is rare for a baby weighing less than 500g (17.6 ounces) to survive.[1]

[Dotsudoku]

i think the problem with that bill is men(other people) telling women what to do with their body.

Are women who aren't planning to produce children permitted to participate in this type of legislation?

[Moosey]

So, murder before a person is 20 weeks old is not illegal in Georgia?

[Kaylia]

That's sooner than I'd think lol.

So that makes me wonder, what is it that makes doctors think they don't feel pain until 21-24 weeks? I find this shit fascinating.

[edit] fix'd 'cause I fail at math.

lolwiki but they have an interesting chart on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

Neurological structure can be developped outside the uterus. I'm not exactly sure how they determine pain tho.

But holy crap, I never thought they were able to save them this young.

Amillia Taylor is also often cited as the most-premature baby.[15] She was born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, at 21 weeks and 6 days gestation.[16] This report has created some confusion as her gestation was measured from the date of conception (through in-vitro fertilization) rather than the date of her mother's last menstrual period making her appear 2 weeks younger than if gestation was calculated by the more common method.[17] At birth, she was 9 inches (22.86 cm) long and weighed 10 ounces (283 grams).[15] She suffered digestive and respiratory problems, together with a brain hemorrhage. She was discharged from the Baptist Children's Hospital on 20 February 2007.[15]

The lower limit of viability is approximately five months gestational age, and usually later.[18]