Proving you're gay to get out of the military

[Kuya]

In Turkey. Enjoy:

Military service is mandatory for all Turkish men - they can only escape it if they are ill, disabled or homosexual. But proving homosexuality is a humiliating ordeal.

''They asked me when I first had anal intercourse, oral sex, what sort of toys I played with as a child."

"They asked me if I liked football, whether I wore woman's clothes or used woman's perfume," he says.

''I had a few days' beard and I am a masculine guy - they told me I didn't look like a normal gay man.''

He was then asked to provide a picture of himself dressed as a woman.

''I refused this request,'' he says. ''But I made them another offer, which they accepted.'' Instead he gave them a photograph of himself kissing another man.

Ahmet hopes this will give him what he needs - a "pink certificate", which will declare him homosexual and therefore exempt from military service

''They asked me if I had any photographs.'' Gokhan says, ''And I did.''

He had gone prepared with explicit photographs of himself having sex with another man, having heard that it would be impossible to get out of military service without them.

''The face must be visible,'' says Gokhan. ''And the photos must show you as the passive partner.''

The photographs satisfied the military doctors. Gokhan was handed his pink certificate and exempted from military service. But it was a terrible experience, he says,

I'm sure it did.

Gay men say the precise nature of the evidence demanded depends on the whim of the military doctor or commander. Sometimes, instead of photographs, doctors rely on a "personality test".

Openly gay men in the army would cause "disciplinary problems", he says, and would be impractical creating the need for "separate facilities, separate dormitories, showers, training areas".

He says that if a gay man keeps his sexuality secret, he can serve - an echo of the US military's recently dropped Don't Ask Don't Tell policy.

"But when someone comes out and says he is gay, then the army needs to make sure that he is truly gay, and not simply lying to evade his mandatory duty to serve in the military.''

"Doctors are coming under immense pressure from their commanders to diagnose homosexuality, and they obey, even though there really are no diagnostic tools to determine sexual orientation,'' says one psychiatrist who formerly worked at a military hospital.

''It is medically impossible, and not at all ethical."

On Gokhan's pink certificate, his status reads: ''psychosexual disorder''. And next to that, in brackets, ''homosexuality''.

Turkey's military hospitals still define homosexuality as an illness, taking a 1968 version of a document by the American Psychiatric Association as their guide.

It is not uncommon for employers in Turkey to question job applicants about their military service - and a pink certificate can mean a job rejection.

One of Gokhan's employers found out about it not by asking Gokhan himself but by asking the army.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17474967

I liked this article, because practically every stereotype of gay men i could think of was in it.

[Mazmaz]

So is the point of this to state what terrible things homosexuals have to go through in order to get their special treatment?

[Kuya]

So is the point of this to state what terrible things homosexuals have to go through in order to get their special treatment?

I'm not following.

[Mazmaz]

They still get out of going to the army whereas other men don't right?

[Kuya]

They still get out of going to the army whereas other men don't right?

Other men who aren't disabled or sick, apparently.

[Dimmauk]

I LOL'd at homosexuality in the same category as being ill (crazy?) and bring disabled.

[Dimmauk]

What if you are born ill or disabled? Do you have to prove that too?

[Mazmaz]

So they have to jump through these terrible loopholes in order to get the special treatment of being able to avoid going to the army.

I had to flee my country and can never go back in order to avoid going to the army. If I had the option of showing a picture of myself kissing a dude to a doctor to get out of the army that would've been pretty sweet. Unfortunately in my country, they just kill you for that instead.

[Sera]

Lol at all gay men having to dress like women and be passive partners.

Clearly a case of no one knowing what the duck regarding homosexuality

[Blarg]

''And the photos must show you as the passive partner.''

I'm glad to know a picture of you slamming 50 dudes buttholes doesn't count as gay.

[Demosthenes11]

''And the photos must show you as the passive partner.''

I'm glad to know a picture of you slamming 50 dudes buttholes doesn't count as gay.

I'm not gay bro

[Blarg]

I'm not gay bro

what were you wearing?

[Sera]

So they have to jump through these terrible loopholes in order to get the special treatment of being able to avoid going to the army.

I had to flee my country and can never go back in order to avoid going to the army. If I had the option of showing a picture of myself kissing a dude to a doctor to get out of the army that would've been pretty sweet. Unfortunately in my country, they just kill you for that instead.

Boo hoo. Our gays just got the right to openly serve within the last year. We aren't talking about your country, or the USA. The point is that their army doesn't WANT gays but wants them to humiliate themselves to prove their "gayness."

[Demosthenes11]

I just don't understand why it's offensive to liken homosexuals to those that are sick or disabled, and then humiliate them when they say they are gay.

And I was wearing a nice clear pair of panties mr blarg.

[Kuya]

So they have to jump through these terrible loopholes in order to get the special treatment of being able to avoid going to the army.

I had to flee my country and can never go back in order to avoid going to the army. If I had the option of showing a picture of myself kissing a dude to a doctor to get out of the army that would've been pretty sweet. Unfortunately in my country, they just kill you for that instead.

Your lack of understanding and seeming indiference by trying to downplay their hardships by claiming others (apparently you) have it worse is telling. Unfortunately for your martyrdom, i did not post the article to declare how bad gays have it in Turkey. I posted it because i found the requirements in order to prove you're gay were hilarious. But i'm sure gay people in Turkey appreciate you telling them they have it easier than gays in Iran. You. A straight man. Much like i'm sure gay guys in America would appreciate you downplaying their suffering by saying that they have it easier than gay guys in Turkey. I'm sure the families of the gay kids who killed themselves would thank you for the sentiment.

And no, don't worry. I know that empirically, gay men in america have it easier than gay men in turkey, and gay men in turkey have it easier than gay men in Iran. In general. Gay men in Iran sometimes believe they need to change their sex to female to escape stigma, only find new forms of stigma as transwomen, when they never wanted to be trans in the first place. But i just thought it was adorable that you thought you were entitled to downplay their experiences. You, a straight man. Poor you.

[ronin sparthos]

What's new here?

We know the Arab world is about 500 years behind with regards to addressing homosexuality which is good if you want a snapshot of how 16th century Europeans acted towards their gays and bad if you're living in that region but really, what's new?

Is this supposed to segue into religion bashing?

[Kuya]

What's new here?

We know the Arab world is about 500 years behind with regards to addressing homosexuality which is good if you want a snapshot of how 16th century Europeans acted towards their gays and bad if you're living in that region but really, what's new?

Is this supposed to segue into religion bashing?

The US just stopped discriminating against gay men in employment for the military. So i guess the US was just 499 years behind.

[Yugl]

I thought the point that Mazmaz was bringing up was similar to the incident of there being a shortage of black people within the Navy. Problem? Nope. The characterization may be at issue, but in this particular circumstance, it seems he embraced the idea.

[Kuya]

The stereotypes of gay men being passive and compulsively dressing as women is still quite popular even in the US. If Turkey is way behind, then it would seem the rest of us aren't that far ahead of Turkey.

[Dimmauk]

They should instead make soldiers prove their heterosexuality. Less meat spin pics, and more naked bitches. Turkey, why you so dumb?