Nasa worth it? (thread split)

[Cantih]

1) When God said it, there were two people on Earth. There are now over 7 billion. We have obeyed His command. We can stop now. We've got dominion over the fish and the birds and the stuff on ground. We did good.

Space, man.
fill ALL the galaxies!

Except, they keep cutting the space budget too,
hmmm.

[Kurokikaze]

Space, man.
fill ALL the galaxies!

Except, they keep cutting the space budget too,
hmmm.

It's fucking sad whats happened with NASA... The one government program that has done more good for mankind than anything else in the last 100 years has gotten this bad rep as a "waste of money". It's crazy too how the program was started out of fear. Fear that the Russians or Chinese were gonna get us.

Maybe terrorists should set their sights on space... Then maybe we'll see NASA soar again.

[Greatguardian]

It's fucking sad whats happened with NASA... The one government program that has done more good for mankind than anything else in the last 100 years has gotten this bad rep as a "waste of money". It's crazy too how the program was started out of fear. Fear that the Russians or Chinese were gonna get us.

Maybe terrorists should set their sights on space... Then maybe we'll see NASA soar again.

This is an interesting point, actually. The rest of this thread is trash.

Personally, I blame the laws of physics for the fall of NASA more than anything else. Space travel went from a limitless frontier to a shocking backhand from reality after the operational costs of leaving orbit and the implausibility of FTL or interstellar travel really set in. In NASA's prime, our national culture was one that looked forward to the future and all the possibilities we had before us. Once we fully realized that we were incapable of exploring those possibilities and would likely continue to be for quite some time, there was nothing more for people to look forward to in our lifetime. Rather than looking ahead to the future, people began to look back towards the past. Since they learned we'd never personally roam the stars like Captain Kirk, our society has been desperately grasping at the memory of the country's "Golden Age".

This has formed the basis of most modern Conservative thought - this desire to return to Suburbia, where everyone ate white bread and owned a Kenmore appliance. The problem is, simply, that Suburbia never really existed. The whole era is viewed through rose-tinted glasses. Instead of moving forward, the future has become the past, and the problems of 60 years ago are being replayed over and over again now. The only difference is that the blacks are now gays, and the commies are now arabs.

People don't fear the future so much as they think it's hopeless. Human beings are fundamentally limited in the scope of their thinking - they find it extraordinarily difficult to think about things in terms of generations or lifetimes. Embarking on a journey that none of us would live to see through is an extremely daunting concept. Even if we launched an interstellar vessel from Earth, it might be a century or more in relative Earth time before it ever arrives at its destination. The people living on Earth at the time of the launch would all be long dead before ever hearing back. There's a good chance that, by the time such a vessel made a round trip even at near light speed, the people of Earth may have forgotten about them entirely.

The Universe is a very large place, and on such a scale human lives pass like instants. Until we are able to either extend our lifetimes or travel significantly faster than the speed of light on a relative scale, space travel is going to seem to many like a waste of time.

[Siatdiat]

This is an interesting point, actually. The rest of this thread is trash.

Personally, I blame the laws of physics for the fall of NASA more than anything else. Space travel went from a limitless frontier to a shocking backhand from reality after the operational costs of leaving orbit and the implausibility of FTL or interstellar travel really set in. In NASA's prime, our national culture was one that looked forward to the future and all the possibilities we had before us. Once we fully realized that we were incapable of exploring those possibilities and would likely continue to be for quite some time, there was nothing more for people to look forward to in our lifetime. Rather than looking ahead to the future, people began to look back towards the past. Since they learned we'd never personally roam the stars like Captain Kirk, our society has been desperately grasping at the memory of the country's "Golden Age".

This has formed the basis of most modern Conservative thought - this desire to return to Suburbia, where everyone ate white bread and owned a Kenmore appliance. The problem is, simply, that Suburbia never really existed. The whole era is viewed through rose-tinted glasses. Instead of moving forward, the future has become the past, and the problems of 60 years ago are being replayed over and over again now. The only difference is that the blacks are now gays, and the commies are now arabs.

People don't fear the future so much as they think it's hopeless. Human beings are fundamentally limited in the scope of their thinking - they find it extraordinarily difficult to think about things in terms of generations or lifetimes. Embarking on a journey that none of us would live to see through is an extremely daunting concept. Even if we launched an interstellar vessel from Earth, it might be a century or more in relative Earth time before it ever arrives at its destination. The people living on Earth at the time of the launch would all be long dead before ever hearing back. There's a good chance that, by the time such a vessel made a round trip even at near light speed, the people of Earth may have forgotten about them entirely.

The Universe is a very large place, and on such a scale human lives pass like instants. Until we are able to either extend our lifetimes or travel significantly faster than the speed of light on a relative scale, space travel is going to seem to many like a waste of time.

This is probably the most interesting and insightful post I have read on these forms ever. Seriously.

[Yugl]

Any reason why we should reinvigorate NASA, btw?

[Lucavi]

I can't think of one unless we're operating under the assumption that we're all like Santorium and want to completely destroy the earth for a few paychecks and lower gas prices because "The earth was created to serve man; man was not created to serve the earth." If we're going to pollute and drill our way into an early grave, then yes, we should be finding another planet to infest and ultimately destroy.

If we're going to try to conserve the nice big rock we have here right now, then there's no reason to try and match the military's budget with a space budget.

[Siatdiat]

Any reason why we should reinvigorate NASA, btw?

I'm torn personally. Part of me wants to side with DeGrasse Tyson, and believe that it will encourage young people to get into math and science. Another part realizes that maybe at the moment other things are more important right now. All of me knows that newt is a Morin for wanting to build a moon base.

[Lucavi]

We can emphasize math and science without NASA. Asian nations do it just fine. Unfortunately, we cannot emphasize math and science while we're promising each and every kid by default that they are a pretty princess and can be whatever they want, no matter want, without any effort required. If we started throwing statistics and pay amounts to our children, and emphasized to them how much better life becomes with a steady paycheck and a good college education, we might get somewhere.

[Greatguardian]

Any reason why we should reinvigorate NASA, btw?

There are certainly reasons to reinvigorate NASA, the question is simply how much you value them.

Pouring more money into the space program isn't going to produce the starship Enterprise in our lifetimes. We're not likely to make contact with alien civilizations, or even with unintelligent life forms on other planets in that scale either. We won't be traveling between the stars in any typical sense of the word, even if we did develop near-light speed travel.

But for the sake of exploration? Of obtaining a greater understanding of the world we live in, and the worlds which surround our own? That can certainly be accomplished. The question is how much we value those things. Knowledge for the sake of knowledge is not a very popular motivation - especially when contemporary ideas of property ownership come into play. Who owns the moon? Mars? The asteroid belt? Who has rights to their spoils? Is it culturally responsible to allow a business the rights to stellar objects? Should someone be able to buy mineral rights on Venus? How much time will be wasted fighting over these things?

As our country stands now, I don't think there's anything that could be meaningfully gained by simply reinvigorating NASA. The problem is much deeper than that.

Edit: I shouldn't say "problem", as that's inaccurate. It's more correct to say that the incongruity is much deeper than that. You can't look towards the future while you're living in the past. People are right when they say that it doesn't feel like the 21st century out there, and that's because people don't want it to be. Simply adding funding to a government program isn't going to stop people from doing their damnedest to bring the world back to 1955. You can't force the future on people any more than others can force the past on us. No effort made with a split congress and half a heart is going to do a damned thing in the long run. Moving forward is a collective effort. People need to want to live in the future before it can be made a reality.

[Cleverness]

Any reason why we should reinvigorate NASA, btw?

Any reason we shouldn't? The amount of technology we have gained from NASA in it's R&D for space activities has certainly shown that things from there can trickle down to normal benefits for your society. We as a country have a bad habit of trying to wait till the last minute to make necessary changes. People were fine burning oil until all the issues regarding oil like costs/pollution/etc became a serious issue, which is why we've been trying to go green in recent years. Should we wait till we DESPERATELY need a solution in space for us to decide to fund NASA and expect realistic results? I'm not saying we should be planning for space colonies and such ala Gundam, but if we actively research in this program with a decent budget, would it be unrealistic to say that in 100-200 years when overpopulation is a very real issue on this planet, it would be something that would have to be considered so our species can survive and that we'd actually have progressed far enough scientifically that we could actually make advances towards achieving something like this? All because we didn't unnecessarily trim the budget of a program that in the past has provided advances in technology for us.

Alot of that sounds over the top, but realistically, if we are ever going to expect advances in space within our own country outside the private sector, we can't just wait till the last minute and expect realistic results. NASA's budget doesn't have to be ENORMOUS but considering our budget is terrible and we can surely trim back certain things like the military budget even slightly to accommodate, it's stupid to not do so. We have alot of issues that need to be dealt with NOW, but if we don't have any plans for the future we'd pretty much be shooting ourselves in the foot anyway.

[Cantih]

Because even if homeostasis issues don't get us in the next one hundred to one million years, the sun's life cycle will fry the planet in one billion and we need to get off the rock before then. And may as well do it now, because thanks to entropy it's only going to get more difficult the longer we put it off.

Also, uh, I guess I'm at fault for this derail.
Sorry.

[Greatguardian]

Because even if homeostasis issues don't get us in the next one hundred to one million years, the sun's life cycle will fry the planet in one billion and we need to get off the rock before then. And may as well do it now, because thanks to entropy it's only going to get more difficult the longer we put it off.

Also, uh, I guess I'm at fault for this derail.
Sorry.

I have little doubt we'll be off this rock in the next thousand years, assuming we last that long. I'm hardly concerned about the next billion.

And fuck the original topic of this thread. It sucked anyways. Less Sera/Solanis clit-waving, more Star Trek.

[Kurokikaze]

That was actually a really good post GreatWarrior. I'm sure a lot of conservatives see things that way in regards to NASA.

I'll side with Neil and say that current budget of NASA should be doubled. It's currently half a cent per tax dollar - let's make it a whole cent. People say that NASA has no purpose but they forget that most of the technological advances in computing could not have been made possible without it. The whole reason we have computers was for the need to make giant mainframes fit inside of a rocket where the weight of each object must be closely monitored and taken into consideration. It's why radios aren't fucking dressers still. I'd go as far as to say that if it wasn't for NASA we would be about another 15 years out before smartphones would be as good as the ones of today. NASA is way more than just microwaves, lasers, memory foam, etc and people just take it for granted..

My main belief in why we've been lacking in innovation as of late is that the private sector is influenced by the profit motive - I don't blame them, that's their job. Innovation costs money, money which may not pay out right away in this economy where investors are incredibly shortsighted. Therefore we cannot rely on the private sector to innovate, this is where the government must step in and put fuel to the fire. The private and public sector can work together, once again, to make sure that equipment is made for whatever experiments are being conducted and these advances in tech occur as a result.

What better reason do you need for a program besides this: it not only brought Americans together... it brought the world together.

We can emphasize math and science without NASA. Asian nations do it just fine. Unfortunately, we cannot emphasize math and science while we're promising each and every kid by default that they are a pretty princess and can be whatever they want, no matter want, without any effort required. If we started throwing statistics and pay amounts to our children, and emphasized to them how much better life becomes with a steady paycheck and a good college education, we might get somewhere.

While their kids are smart and eager to get into math and science... Asian nations do not have a good track record when it comes to innovation. They're good at copying and building upon but not coming up with things that are truly unique.

Also.... HOLY fucking derail.

[Cleverness]

Solanis got banned thankfully so there probably won't be much more of that going on.

And if we're still alive in a billion years Cantih, I assume we'd have evolved after that much time into something else. I'd be surprised if we lasted that long and weren't replaced by some other species after that much time though. Like space sharks.

[Kurokikaze]

And come on, how do you seriously take away funding from this?

[hey]

but if we actively research in this program with a decent budget, would it be unrealistic to say that in 100-200 years when overpopulation is a very real issue on this planet, it would be something that would have to be considered so our species can survive

How can overpopulation and the survival of the species be simultaneous problems?

[BaneTheBrawler]

use up all oxygen in atmosphere. species goes extinct.

[hey]

lol

[BaneTheBrawler]

yeah its not very realistic, but it is possible. if we abuse the earth too much it won't be able to recover fast enough to keep us alive as a species, and over-population is a pretty good way of assuring the earth gets abused as much as possible.

[Siatdiat]

And come on, how do you seriously take away funding from this?

This is awesome.