75 main, subbing bst - where's the data?

[draxyl]

Been trying to search around on BG and KI this afternoon, specifically for some 75 main/bst posts with physical data on charm success vs. resist rates. I took it for common endgame knowledge that folks knew that if you subbed a lvl 75 bst to your main (75 rdm/bst for example), you will charm at the same rate as your lvl 75 bst, not the rate a /37 bst would charm.

Anyone know where some data on the topic is?

[Saraphym]

I've heard this a few times also from people with 1 or 75 jobs and a 75bst, but never seen any actual evidence via testing or anything.

[orinthia]

There was a test on alla's bst forum a while back. Here's a link.
Gist: your main bst lvl matters. Screenshots showing guage's response to two players of identical job/bst, race, and gear yet differing bst main lvls were posted.

[Metah]

There was a test on alla's bst forum a while back. Here's a link.
Gist: your main bst lvl matters. Screenshots showing guage's response to two players of identical job/bst, race, and gear yet differing bst main lvls were posted.

I'll update BGwiki with this information, thank you very much.

[Turtlesoup]

Didn't know there was a test about it, it's very common knowledge for people with 75 BST though.

[Bakthi]

I've also seen posts where, while someone was leveling BST, they would periodically try out their 75 job as /BST as their BST hit various levels. Actual ability to charm does seem to reflect this as well.

Personally, I remember going as 75BRD/60BST with a bunch of CHR to the Crawler's Nest for my coffer key to complete my BRD hat, and having tons of mischarms. These days I easily do CN escort as 75WHM/75BST (for Altep; I go with a BLM) and rarely mischarm anything.

[OctavoGilgamesh]

I've heard this a few times also from people with 1 or 75 jobs and a 75bst, but never seen any actual evidence via testing or anything.

QFT

Here is a journal type thing for a noob who did nin/bst pretty much solo for anyone interested in tatics and stuff, looks like he quit though so didn't get to 75.

[Charismatic]

I've heard this a few times also from people with 1 or 75 jobs and a 75bst, but never seen any actual evidence via testing or anything.

QFT

Here is a journal type thing for a noob who did nin/bst pretty much solo for anyone interested in tatics and stuff, looks like he quit though so didn't get to 75.

Too bad he quit, I actually enjoyed reading a bit of that... I got my BST at 65 atm, maybe that'll give me some motivation to finish it sometime soon, and possible try some /BST action after(though I doubt I'll do that part).

Thanks for that link.

[Decimus]

yes, /bst charming rate is based on the lvl of your BST main. I used to fail charms on coffer lvl mobs as /bst quite often when I had BST to only 37. My BST is 68 now and I rarely mischarm coffer lvl mobs with /BST.

[Ruby]

i've heard that charm when subbing BST is only as successful as it would be if BST was the same lvl as the main job.

For example: 50RDM/(75)BST. The charm does not have the same success rate as a 75 BST instead this is capped to the level of the main job. so the RDM would be 50RDM/(50)BST.

[Isiolia]

i've heard that charm when subbing BST is only as successful as it would be if BST was the same lvl as the main job.

For example: 50RDM/(75)BST. The charm does not have the same success rate as a 75 BST instead this is capped to the level of the main job. so the RDM would be 50RDM/(50)BST.

The way a lot of people state it is that the accuracy is based on the lower of the two jobs.

So if you're a 50RDM/75BST, the 50 RDM is the limiting factor. If you're a 50RDM/25BST, then the BST job is the limiting one.

[Ryany]

/(75)bst seems almost as good on things EM or below that don't have the resist charm trait, but it seems to fail a lot more than bst main of the same level on stuff that has resist charm. (like slimes)

I soloed pld 70-75 as pld/(75)bst and landed charm maybe 75% of the time on stuff DC-EM. Bst main would land maybe 95% on DC-EMs. /bst didn't seem to change the duration or if it did, it didn't do it enough b/c my pets weren't coming un-charmed during battle.

I could do some really nice testing since I have 75 rdm on both of my characters and bst is 75 on one and 30 on the other. The problem is that I probably won't do detailed testing until I finish some other things in game first. On top of that, I don't think it is worth leveling bst to 75 on another character just to test things. I can tell you that my 75rdm/75bst can charm certain enemies that my 75rdm/30bst couldn't charm after about 25 straight tries.

[draxyl]

The test I want to do is setup both characters to sub bst, have one with it truly @ 37 and the other has it @ 75. In your case, it sounds like you'd go 75 rdm/bst on both. Make sure you have the same CHR on both characters, in case of race fluctuations. Also, I'd say it's ok to use light/apollo's on both characters. Aside from gear used to match CHR amounts and the stave, go naked.

Now, go out and charm something thats somewhat resistive, like those Korrigans in 2nd level Boyahda. If you're feeling statistical, do 100 charms/releases on both characters. Just tally the results in excel as you go.

If what we're saying is true, the character with 75 bst subbed @ 37 to rdm should have a MUCH higher charm rate than the other character. Actually, I'd be surprised to see the other character charm those at all. Should be something like 80-90% success on one char, and something between 0-10% success for the other (wild ass guesses).

Flaws?

[orinthia]

Gauge does the same thing just saves you the trouble of figuring out whether or not you can really charm by telling you whether it'll be easy or hard. The thread I linked to has done this if you actually looked at it (two characters exactly the same except for their bst main lvls gauging the exact same mob and having different gauge results). Even presented screenshots from the two characters with their lvls and what the chat log read.

[draxyl]

Right, but I think it would be really interesting to compare an actual bit of data on success vs. fail for charm. Specifically, it would be nice to put this data on the wiki.

The screenshots provided do show that there is a valid difference. I guess I'm just interested in hard #'s over game text. No need to shout, I checked out the shots.

[orinthia]

Yeah I should have just left it lower case... or italicized. /edits. Didn't mean to text shout but I just felt it was already done with gauge since gauge itself is reasonably accurate in its description, at least as accurate as the /check is toward a mob's lvl compared to yours. I know my 75pld/37 lvled bst can't charm easy prey to 75 at all, even with 4/5 koenig/etc, and it always says difficult to charm for such mobs.

Sounds like a little bit of extra work but doing your own tests and results can only help the wiki.