Nyzul Lamps

[Zilong]

We tried this a few days ago, got into the ordered lamp with 4 lamps, and spent like 10 minutes to no avail since the lamp seem to goes off regardless the order without any hint on the actual positioning.

I mean with 4 ordered lamp, that'd be 24 combination we'd have to check if the lit lamp doesn't stay on, and assuming perfect execution and order calls. At like 15-30 seconds for waiting the light to goes off and reactivating that's 6-12 minutes...which is time consuming if not run failing to check every possible combination unless you lucked out on the first few try.

Has this happen to anyone else post update?

[Lilswitche]

This is a very long post, sorry in advance.

I've gotten order lamps a couple times since the update. It hasn't changed. Assuming there's 4 lamps, if everyone in the group is following the activation order properly and you rotate the order accordingly, you really shouldn't need to activate the lamps more than 4 times.

I find it extremely important that everyone follow the given order called out to activate them, and to speak up whether each lamp remained lit or not after each act. order. Remember, if someone's lamp stays lit after the order, they activated their lamp in the correct order.

IE:
1st Order : A >> B >> C >> D
B stays lit after activation, then you could try;
D >> B >> A >> C
D and B stay lit, then;
D >> B >> C >> A = win

Assuming people follow the order properly, with 4 lamps, you only need to do 4 orders, and even that's rare, as it is likely will find their correct placement before even reaching the 4th attempt. With 5 lamps, 5 orders max.


Looking at this mathematicly:

With 4 Lamps, 24 distinct combinations (4P4):

ABCD ABDC ACBD ACDB ADCB ADBC BACD BADC BCAD BCDA BDAC BDCA CABD CADB CBAD CBDA CDAB CDBA DABC DACB DBAC DBCA DCAB DCBA

If your first order is A >> B >> C >> D, and none of them remain lit after all are activated, that means only the following posibilities remain:

BADC BCDA BDAC CADB CDAB CDBA DABC DCAB DCBA

Once over, knowing none were in the correct position you may try-> D >> A >> B >> C. Once again if no lamps remain lit:

BCDA or CDAB

That would leave you with a 50% chance to get it right on the 3rd order of activations. An 11.1% chance on the 2nd order, and 4.16% on the 1st. Of course, as I mentioned earlier, this is all assuming you've given good orders, that they are all activated in the correct order given, and everyone reports their lamp lights correctly.

What I find happens quite often with people that I go with, that are somewhat unfamiliar with the process, is that they will either activate the lamp as their running by when trying to find more, or or they don't light them in the correct order. If you light them in the incorrect order on the 1st try, it screws everything up, and you'll likely tag on a few more orders before realizing it (As the person calling the orders will likely think certain people are/aren't in the correct position based on that first activation order).

Once again I apologize for the lengthy post. If there needs to be any clarifications or adjustments if I made a mistake (being that it's 6am and I'm tired), let me know and I'll revamp this.

[Khalil]

Extremely helpful guide, Lil. Mind if I quote this on my boards?

[Lyramion]

Someone needs to write a Nyzul Isle Lamp plugin for Windower

[Lilswitche]

Extremely helpful guide, Lil. Mind if I quote this on my boards?

I don't mind at all. Good luck with your "Nyzul'ing"!

[Zilong]

This is a very long post, sorry in advance.

I've gotten order lamps a couple times since the update. It hasn't changed. Assuming there's 4 lamps, if everyone in the group is following the activation order properly and you rotate the order accordingly, you really shouldn't need to activate the lamps more than 4 times.

I find it extremely important that everyone follow the given order called out to activate them, and to speak up whether each lamp remained lit or not after each act. order. Remember, if someone's lamp stays lit after the order, they activated their lamp in the correct order.

IE:
1st Order : A >> B >> C >> D
B stays lit after activation, then you could try;
D >> B >> A >> C
D and B stay lit, then;
D >> B >> C >> A = win

Assuming people follow the order properly, with 4 lamps, you only need to do 4 orders, and even that's rare, as it is likely will find their correct placement before even reaching the 4th attempt. With 5 lamps, 5 orders max.


Looking at this mathematicly:

With 4 Lamps, 24 distinct combinations (4P4):

ABCD ABDC ACBD ACDB ADCB ADBC BACD BADC BCAD BCDA BDAC BDCA CABD CADB CBAD CBDA CDAB CDBA DABC DACB DBAC DBCA DCAB DCBA

If your first order is A >> B >> C >> D, and none of them remain lit after all are activated, that means only the following posibilities remain:

BADC BCDA BDAC CADB CDAB CDBA DABC DCAB DCBA

Once over, knowing none were in the correct position you may try-> D >> A >> B >> C. Once again if no lamps remain lit:

BCDA or CDAB

That would leave you with a 50% chance to get it right on the 3rd order of activations. An 11.1% chance on the 2nd order, and 4.16% on the 1st. Of course, as I mentioned earlier, this is all assuming you've given good orders, that they are all activated in the correct order given, and everyone reports their lamp lights correctly.

What I find happens quite often with people that I go with, that are somewhat unfamiliar with the process, is that they will either activate the lamp as their running by when trying to find more, or or they don't light them in the correct order. If you light them in the incorrect order on the 1st try, it screws everything up, and you'll likely tag on a few more orders before realizing it (As the person calling the orders will likely think certain people are/aren't in the correct position based on that first activation order).

Once again I apologize for the lengthy post. If there needs to be any clarifications or adjustments if I made a mistake (being that it's 6am and I'm tired), let me know and I'll revamp this.

That's helpful and all, but the last time I had ordered lamp, none of the lamp stays lit regardless of the order we use, so I'm wondering if that was a one time glitch or something that got fucked up with update.

Maybe it's just one member fucking up then

[Seyrr]

Just as a rule of thumb, before you ever suspect this:

I'm wondering if that was a one time glitch or something that got fucked up with update.

Suspect this instead:

Maybe it's just one member fucking up then

I do Nyzul with a pretty talented group and can trust them to do the right thing without even having to be told, but when lamps start going haywire, it's pretty much always because someone misclicked something somewhere.

[Loren]

The only times we've had trouble with sequence lamps is when a new or temp member activates one as soon as they find it and they don't tell anybody.

Yes, there are a lot of possible sequences of ABCD, but if A -> B -> C -> D results in 0/4 staying on, that gives you a lot of information to eliminate future attempts. A simple algorithm is to simply down-shift the off lamps, e.g.
A -> B -> C -> D: all turn off
next attempt: D -> A -> B -> C

[Kaylia]

Make sure everyone know what "lamp being lit" mean. It will always turn bright for a few seconds. If it goes off, it mean it's not correct. If it never fade, it mean it was light in the correct order.

[Arkanos]

I'm pretty sure there's a variation of ordered lamps where lamps will not light up unless they, and ALL the lamps in the order before them were hit in the correct order. In other words, if the order was A-B-C-D, C will never light up even if you hit it third always, unless A and B were hit first and second correctly too. This hit our group once around floor 40-60 causing us to fail, despite us being really experienced with lamps by that time. We were expecting iteration #4 to succeed when no lamps lighted up in the first three tries, but only one ended staying on, and it threw us for a pretty big loop.

Even if you get this though, with a cool head, the absolute maximum amount of times you need to try is 11 (5 lamps, 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 mistries), so it's still not too bad, but it'd definitely be one of the bigger time-wasting floors.

[Alibeemac]

Lamps suck. Turning them on in the correct order is the thing that always causes a loss in our group. Someone in my static wrote a guide for us to follow but we always have to replace someone who is absent with someone who hasn't done it before and when we get lamps it sucks Luckily we did 4 runs yesterday with not a single lamp in sight and got our disc to 56 :D

[Midnightjade]

I'm pretty sure there's a variation of ordered lamps where lamps will not light up unless they, and ALL the lamps in the order before them were hit in the correct order. In other words, if the order was A-B-C-D, C will never light up even if you hit it third always, unless A and B were hit first and second correctly too. This hit our group once around floor 40-60 causing us to fail, despite us being really experienced with lamps by that time. We were expecting iteration #4 to succeed when no lamps lighted up in the first three tries, but only one ended staying on, and it threw us for a pretty big loop.

Even if you get this though, with a cool head, the absolute maximum amount of times you need to try is 11 (5 lamps, 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 mistries), so it's still not too bad, but it'd definitely be one of the bigger time-wasting floors.

We've seen something similar, just once or twice in all our runs since June (7 tags a week, every week). The one time I remember definitely seeing it, it was part of a set of 5 floors which also contained other unusual floors. We beat the set of five and haven't seen them again since.

By the way, even if you're experienced with regular lamp floors, you can still occasionally get a permutation that by bad luck alone can cause you to lose time. For example, last night we had a 5-lamp floor, and went through the permutations logically and in sequence. However, it just so happened that the final possible permutation was the correct one. We played it well but it still took a while.

Hope this helps.

[Ryko]

Lamps suck. Turning them on in the correct order is the thing that always causes a loss in our group. Someone in my static wrote a guide for us to follow but we always have to replace someone who is absent with someone who hasn't done it before and when we get lamps it sucks Luckily we did 4 runs yesterday with not a single lamp in sight and got our disc to 56 :D

Have the person that isnt familiar with it stay at the rune of transfer, have the others go to the lamps. Even newbies know how to click "go to the next floor" or "exit".

[Lonewind]

I've been calling Lamp order in my static and ours seems to have gone rather smoothly.

We have ran into situations in which there are 3 lamps or 4 lamps to call out.

So when 3 members have found lamps, give it a few seconds to see if a fourth lamp has been found then start in whatever order you like. I usually go with the order the lamps are found just to get it started. For an example, ABCD have found lamps in the order of ABCD.

I will call out A B C D in /p

and each will say in /p that they have activated the lamp for the next person to go

if no lamps stayed on
(rotate all members moving first to last and all move forward by one)
B C D A

D lamp stayed on
(rotate all members in the same fashion above, keeping the one that's correct)
C A D B

This should get the correct order within a maximum of 3 tries.

There might be a better system, but this has been working for our static rather well. We used to hate lamps since it takes the longest, now the kill all is what we dread the most, and lamps actually buys us some time.

[Osede]

I'm pretty sure there's a variation of ordered lamps where lamps will not light up unless they, and ALL the lamps in the order before them were hit in the correct order. In other words, if the order was A-B-C-D, C will never light up even if you hit it third always, unless A and B were hit first and second correctly too. This hit our group once around floor 40-60 causing us to fail, despite us being really experienced with lamps by that time. We were expecting iteration #4 to succeed when no lamps lighted up in the first three tries, but only one ended staying on, and it threw us for a pretty big loop.

Even if you get this though, with a cool head, the absolute maximum amount of times you need to try is 11 (5 lamps, 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 mistries), so it's still not too bad, but it'd definitely be one of the bigger time-wasting floors.

We've seen something similar, just once or twice in all our runs since June (7 tags a week, every week). The one time I remember definitely seeing it, it was part of a set of 5 floors which also contained other unusual floors. We beat the set of five and haven't seen them again since.

By the way, even if you're experienced with regular lamp floors, you can still occasionally get a permutation that by bad luck alone can cause you to lose time. For example, last night we had a 5-lamp floor, and went through the permutations logically and in sequence. However, it just so happened that the final possible permutation was the correct one. We played it well but it still took a while.

Hope this helps.

That situation happened lots of time to my group. For example the 5 lamps case A,B,C,D,E

Usually until the 5th tried,

E>A>B>D>C we got the E correct and C correct. But then in the end we found that the correct order will be something like E>B>A>D>C which suppose in the first try we should got the B and D correct in order already. Fortunate that lately we only got 3 lamps of order or activating lamps in the same time. Else we would be drived insane if it was on the 60 and 80 nyzul.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

We do it exactly the way the guide above says and have it down to a science.

1. always clear the rooms before starting to light (you dont want aggro/death while trying to light lamps)

2. The lights that stay on, stay in their current position, everyone else moves up one slot into the nonlit lamps.

EX
try 1:
ABCDE lets say A and C stay on
try 2:
AECBD lets say A C B now on
try 3:
ADCBE win!

also: Ventrilo helps a ton

[Pninja]

The clearing lamp room mobs before starting to light is dependent on your group and the floor, I'd imagine. My group almost never clears any mobs on a lamp floor unless a melee gets bored or gets in a situation that's unavoidable except to kill. If they get aggro, they just shake it after tanking a lil by timing their clicks on a lamp and not getting event skipped (you lose aggro on all mobs when you activate a lamp), or a sleeper comes and sleeps it that isn't hunting for lamps. If it's a sound aggro room, they just use a sneak pot. I'm usually on a mage job, so I'll either have s/i on or I'll just sleep/carby stuff indefinitely while waiting for my turn to activate lamps.

Problems I've had are already listed above, like when the first person clicks a lamp to see the actual objective and doesn't say they did or it somehow screws up the order (I clicked on it to see what it said, but didn't activate it, but it still counted as active somehow, etc.). The other problem we have gotten once or twice is since we use vent and say "ok I went..." on vent when it was our turn, sometimes someone says they went before they FULLY clicked on the lamp > activate? y/n > lag > lamp active, and then the next person in order ends up somehow in front of them.

Just make sure you remember to count the first person who found a lamp to see the objective properly, and make sure you do nothing but sit at a lamp waiting and say the order clearly and announce clearly when you have fully activated a lamp. If it doesn't work, just shift the members that were wrong one spot over, like was mentioned.

[Lilswitche]

We do it exactly the way the guide above says and have it down to a science.

1. always clear the rooms before starting to light (you dont want aggro/death while trying to light lamps)

2. The lights that stay on, stay in their current position, everyone else moves up one slot into the nonlit lamps.

EX
try 1:
ABCDE lets say A and C stay on
try 2:
AECBD lets say A C B now on
try 3:
ADCBE win!

also: Ventrilo helps a ton

Pretty much. If you always use the same method when changing the order, everyone knows what to expect and the order won't throw them off. Clearing and not clearing rooms really comes down to preference and jobs I think. Typically I'll just go ahead and clear aggro mobs in rooms, or have a sleeper take care of them (especially for gears). My rule of thumb, if it's a lamp floor I'll have my group start killing mobs while I search for a lamp, because if it's Same-Time lamps, most of the time you'll need to clear the floor anyways.

[Priphea]

[quote="Lilswitche"]My rule of thumb, if it's a lamp floor I'll have my group start killing mobs while I search for a lamp, because if it's Same-Time lamps, most of the time you'll need to clear the floor anyways.quote]


I think with studious use of Sneak and Invis, you generally can get away with not killing a single mob on Same Time lamps.

[Serif]

Lamps suck. Turning them on in the correct order is the thing that always causes a loss in our group. Someone in my static wrote a guide for us to follow but we always have to replace someone who is absent with someone who hasn't done it before and when we get lamps it sucks Luckily we did 4 runs yesterday with not a single lamp in sight and got our disc to 56 :D

Have the person that isnt familiar with it stay at the rune of transfer, have the others go to the lamps. Even newbies know how to click "go to the next floor" or "exit".

QFT

We have a Nyzul Static with 5 people always going and then we have a 6th spot for some one else on Vent or a friend.

If we get lamps we just tell that person to stay there and we will take care of the lamps. The only time that person gets chewed out on the lamp floor is if they go AFK or something stupid once the activation happens. -. -;